David,
I am not saying that the Jesus I believe in -- that is, the
Jesus of Scripture -- cannot save her, or that she is not saved
by that same Jesus. I am saying that the Jesus she describes cannot save
her, as he is impotent to save her or anyone else, and if it were true what she
says about the hybrid she believes in, we are all doomed.
And so my apologies for not being more specific. I can see
where you misunderstood me.
Bill
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, January 16, 2006 3:00 PM
Subject: Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] love and trinity THE HUMANITY OF
CHRIST IS NOT DIVINE
> >> I don't see anything earthy about him.
> >> Temptation or no temptation.
>
> Bill wrote:
> > ... then you are still in your sins and you
> > do not have a Savior.
>
> I would have to disagree with you here, Bill. Such would make salvation
> dependent upon her intellectual understanding.
>
> It seems to me that Judy knows her Savior. She just does not understand the
> aspects of humanity about him that we are now discussing. Nevertheless, she
> has placed faith in him, despite this, and she knows him well enough through
> the Spirit to have experienced the forgiveness of sins and life everlasting.
>
> David Miller.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Taylor
> To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
> Sent: Monday, January 16, 2006 4:41 PM
> Subject: Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] love and trinity THE HUMANITY OF CHRIST IS NOT
> DIVINE
>
>
> I don't see anything earthy about him. Temptation or no temptation.
>
> Well, Judy, then you are still in your sins and you do not have a Savior.
>
> Bill
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Judy Taylor
> To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
> Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
> Sent: Monday, January 16, 2006 2:22 PM
> Subject: Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] love and trinity THE HUMANITY OF CHRIST IS NOT
> DIVINE
>
>
> The first Adam after the fall did indeed need saving from the wrath of God
> Bill
> and so do we. Our "humanity" is under a curse along with the rest of
> creation Bill
> Which is spelled out in scripture. Jesus went to the cross in order to
> institute a
> "New Creation" and this is why he is called the Second Adam. The first Adam
> is earthy or of the earthy (as we are). The Second Adam is the Lord from
> heaven.
>
> Your gospel is inverted Bill. It is not Jesus who takes on our likeness
> although he
> passed in all the areas where the first Adam failed; and was without sin
> where we
> are for the most part loaded down with it. Read 1 Cor 15:42-52. Sounds to
> me
> like the second Adam is the Lord from heaven. I don't see anything earthy
> about
> him. Temptation or no temptation.
>
>
>
> From: Taylor
>
> Tell me why he (Jesus) HAD to be like US in every way? Why couldn't he have
> been like the
> first Adam before the fall, ...
>
> Because the first Adam before the fall did not need to be saved Judy. We do.
>
> Bill
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Judy Taylor
> To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
> Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
> Sent: Monday, January 16, 2006 11:50 AM
> Subject: Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] love and trinity THE HUMANITY OF CHRIST IS NOT
> DIVINE
>
>
>
>
> On Mon, 16 Jan 2006 11:29:01 -0700 "Taylor" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> so there is no way that this would be the same concept Bill.
>
> Why is that, Judy? Did "they" not create us in "their" likeness? (cf. Gen
> 1.26).
>
> Yes they did created the first Adam in their nature and character
> spiritually - which "likeness"
> Adam forfeited when he chose to go with Eve into disobedience by eating the
> wrong fruit.
>
> Thereafter all men (including us) are born into this world by procreation in
> the likeness of
> the first Adam rather than the likeness of God (Gen 5:3)
>
> The only possible way to regain the image of God lost by the first Adam is
> to become
> conformed to the image of the second Adam which is the sole purpose for His
> coming
> and His willingness to lay down His human life as a perfect sacrifice in our
> place.
>
> Laying aside the fact that you are making much too much of Seth having been
> born in the image
> of Adam (see Gen 9.6 and answer for me what would be wrong, then, with
> killing someone who
> was no longer created in God's image, but in Adam's),
>
> At the beginnign they were created in God's image and now Noah who found
> grace is starting
> over even though it didn't take too many generations for the whole of
> humanity (all but 8 ppl)
> to be destroyed. I don't believe God is interested in fellowshipping with a
> bunch of devils.
>
> Judy, I fail to understand why that should even prevent Christ from being
> united in his person,
> his humanness with his divinity.
>
> I understand. It is mixture; joining the holy with the profane which is
> something God hates.
>
> The only thing which could have severed that union was the one thing which
> he did not do:
> sin. Hence in his person, he was able to undo that which had indeed produced
> schizophrenia
> in the relationship between humanity and God.
>
> Tell me why he (Jesus) HAD to be like US in every way? Why couldn't he have
> been like the
> first Adam before the fall, the one who was created? Jesus was not exactly
> procreated like
> us since he had no human father so that must mess up your thesis at least a
> little.
>
> And were he not like us in every way, he could not have produced this
> reconciliation; for what
> he would have done in a flesh unlike our own would have had no bearing upon
> human flesh,
> and we would therefore still be in sin. Bill
>
> Not so; all he had to do was meet God's conditions which apparently involved
> passing the
> test that A&E failed and he did that in the wilderness... right after his
> baptism.
> From: Judy Taylor
>
> On Mon, 16 Jan 2006 09:57:12 -0700 "Taylor" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> so there is no way that this would be the same concept Bill.
>
> Why is that, Judy? Did "they" not create us in "their" likeness? (cf. Gen
> 1.26).
>
> Yes they did created the first Adam in their nature and character
> spiritually - which "likeness"
> Adam forfeited when he chose to go with Eve into disobedience by eating the
> wrong fruit.
>
> Thereafter all men (including us) are born into this world by procreation in
> the likeness of
> the first Adam rather than the likeness of God (Gen 5:3)
>
> The only possible way to regain the image of God lost by the first Adam is
> to become
> conformed to the image of the second Adam which is the sole purpose for His
> coming
> and His willingness to lay down His human life as a perfect sacrifice in our
> place.
> .
>
> From: Judy Taylor
> To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
> Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
> Sent: Monday, January 16, 2006 9:31 AM
> Subject: Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] love and trinity THE HUMANITY OF CHRIST IS
> NOTDIVINE
>
>
> On Mon, 16 Jan 2006 09:29:22 -0700 "Taylor" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> OK - I'm asking Bill, what husband, and what schism?
>
> Oh, I thought you were married. The bible says that you and your husband (if
> you had one) were to become "one" flesh, in other words the two of you in
> coming together would be united -- and not just physically, I might add; it
> is the marriage "union" after all. The same is true with God. The bible
> teaches that the Lord is "one" and it uses the same word when saying this;
> hence there is a oneness or unity within the nature of God, a coming
> together of a plurality in union.
>
> God is a Spirit (Jn 4:24) so there is no way that this would be the same
> concept Bill. Sure the Godhead are One and united
> in Spirit.
>
> And so, since you suggested that if Christ be fully God and fully human
> there must be a schism, I was just wondering about the schism you have with
> your man. Why instead of schism aren't you united?
>
> In marriage between humans it is "one flesh" Bill
>
> There would only be a schism between the two natures of Christ if there were
> disunity between the two.
> The person of Christ had no disunity; hence no schism. Bill
>
> There would have been disunity "big time" if he had a human nature - just
> like us and was in fact wholly God ATST; schizophrenic
> would be the right term. Also "Flesh and blood DO NOT inherit God's
> Kingdom" Bill so what would be the purpose??
>
>
> From: Judy Taylor
>
>
> OK - I'm asking Bill, what husband, and what schism?
>
> On Mon, 16 Jan 2006 07:28:15 -0700 "Taylor" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> And while you're at it, will you explain your schism with your husband, too?
>
> (If this needs clarification, just ask)
>
> Bill
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Dean Moore
> To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
> Sent: Monday, January 16, 2006 5:24 AM
> Subject: Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] love and trinity THE HUMANITY OF CHRIST IS
> NOTDIVINE
>
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Judy Taylor
> To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
> Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
> Sent: 1/14/2006 1:07:17 PM
> Subject: Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] love and trinity THE HUMANITY OF CHRIST IS
> NOTDIVINE
>
>
> Dean,
> I think this is where "theology" gets itself tied in knots. This is what JD
> has been accusing me of for so long.
> How ironic that his mentor Bill would write something like this. I think
> Lance just repeated it to qualify something.
> So their Jesus must have a schism in his personality (or nature). What
> about his saying to Philip "If you have
> seen me you have seen the Father" We know he wasn't speaking of his
> physical body here; so does God
> The Father also have a schismatic personality.
>
> cd: Judy can you define your usage of 'schismatic'.
>
> On Sat, 14 Jan 2006 09:59:08 -0500 "Dean Moore" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> writes:
> Well, yes and no, DH. I am included in that circle of love in the way that
> Christ's humanity is included in that relationship. But as the humanity of
> Christ is not divine, neither am I divine.
>
> cd: Lance at this point- How do you define "Divine"?
>
>
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>
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