Hebrews 2.11-18.
(11) For both he that sanctifieth and they
who are sanctified are all of one: for which cause he is not ashamed to call
them brethren,
Dean, when I read this, I understand the writer to be saying
that Christ and us are all physical descendants of the same person, the same
"one," and that that is why he can call us brothers without being ashamed of
us in our physical state. How do you read it?
cd: I read it as saying that He is not ashamed to call us
brothers because of our sanctification into God-through salvation and is not
referring to the flesh at all-that is why it must put on incorruption and
changed.
Sanctifying
SANC'TIFYING, ppr.
1. Making holy; purifying from the defilements of sin; separating
to a holy use.
2. a. Tending to sanctify; adapted to increase
holiness.
(12) Saying, I will declare thy name unto my brethren, in the midst
of the church will I sing praise unto thee.
(13) And again, I will put my
trust in him. And again, Behold I and the children which God hath given
me.
(14) Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood,
he also himself likewise took part of the same;
Dean, I read this to be saying that Jesus shared the same flesh
and blood as we have, and not that his flesh and blood was a special kind,
unlike ours. How do you read it?
cd: I read it the same as you-he was as we are now in the flesh
only his nature was/is more divine and Godlike-but remember whom the
brethren are-converted sinners-not as the worldly people are but
brethren.
And this he did for us so "that through death he
might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil; (15) And
deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to
bondage."
cd: Did Christ suffer bondage also Bill?
(16) For verily he took not on him the nature
of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.
Dean, when I read this, I understand it to be saying that his
human nature was the same as that of Abraham, Christ being the Seed of
Abraham. How do you read it?
cd: I read him coming from that seed -but lacking the
weakliness a human father would have giving him. We are not seed of women
-He was- there is a difference. Mankind first fell due to women's seed by
sin-I believe God chose women's seed to bring him (man) up from that
fall by no sin. The Flesh was there-Christ had to deal with that flesh-and
the divine nature of God gave him the help he needed to rule his flesh. We
are told to take every thought into captivity so those thoughts come because
of our flesh nature (fiery darts from the wicked one) and are not
sin unless we give heed to those thoughts-and a true brother -grown in the
spirit will not do so. Christ did not do so. Did those thoughts come to
him-I would say yes as he was in the flesh also but the divine nature-the
same as the one He gave us-prevented Him from giving heed to those thoughts.
To think otherwise in my opinion is to make Christ weak-and He was not
weak.
(17) Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto
his brethren,
And Dean, I read this to be saying that his human nature had to
be exactly (i.e., "in all things") like ours, too; we being his brothers.
How do you read it?
cd: Yes he had a fleshly body but a divine nature that a
saved person has-not a nature of bondage a lost man has-until sin came on
his at the cross.
And this so
"that he might be a merciful and faithful high
priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of
the people. (18) For in that he himself hath suffered being tempted, he is
able to succour them that are tempted."
cd: I do not see being tempted to the state of fallen man-who
gave heed to his temptations Christ did not do so-and by this was able to
reconcile us to God. Remember we had to change in order to enter the body-He
was the body.
