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In your economy Lance; I don't think or speak in those
terms. To me a "text" as you call it is
God's Word for which one either does or does not have
understanding. Man shall not live by
every "text/doctrine" but by every word that proceeds
from the mouth of God"
When one employs a text in order to address a
concern or, to make a point then, ONE HAS A DOCTRINE, JUDY.
----- Original Message -----
Sent: January 22, 2006 23:00
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Was Jesus of
God's Nature?
If Christ came in the fallen state He would have been a
sinner-
First of all, Dean, Christ is God and Man.
Secondly, don't think in terms of "fallen nature" but in terms of sin
nature.
A sin nature and a "fallen nature are one and the
same"
So far as humanity is concerned - There is none
righteous, no not one.
Jesus Christ, is pure, holy, and he is and always
has been righteous.
The same nature - yesterday, today, and
forever
Now, you may laugh thinking one is no better than the other
-
but I believe there is a difference. The first has sinned
- the second only
has potential for sin...... it is temptable.
Adam and Eve were created with a temptable nature (a sin
nature)
or they would have never been given the charge to "not eat" nor would
they have violated that command. jd
A&E were created innocent; they did not know
sin until they decided to
disobey - that's all it took. This may
conflict with your doctrine but that's
just how it is.
----- Original Message -----
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: 1/21/2006 2:30:18 PM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Was
Jesus of God's Nature?
cd: To me this fits the state of
Christianity (our new state, a Christ-like state)not
the lost man following Satan state that the world lies in
.
Yes, a good analogy but
we as Christians are given a measure of the Holy Spirit;
how
crazy does it sound to
say Jesus came into the world with a nature that follows
Satan
which is the natural
mind and the same state that the world lies in... Oh but ATST
he
walks in the fullness of
the Holy Spirit?
cd: If Christ came in the fallen state
He would have been a sinner-Yet God himself said He was well
pleased with Christ-What sinner is God well pleased wit? Christ
was of a righteous nature-not a fallen nature.In the below we
see Christ saying "Yes, You are of Abraham's seed but not
Abraham's Children-instead you are Satan's Children.
This shows there is a clear distinction between the two. One can
be of Abraham's seed and still belong to Satan-and One can be of
Abraham seed and belong to God.Christ was of this
nature- Hence He was with this nature in the flesh of
Abraham's seed.When God prevented Abraham from killing Isaac He
told Abraham that because you have not withheld your son
from me I will not withhold my one son from you-meaning he would
send Christ to Abraham's decedents.
Joh 8:33 They answered him, We be
Abraham's seed, and were never in bondage to any man: how sayest
thou, Ye shall be made free?
Joh 8:34 Jesus answered them,
Verily,
verily,
I
say
unto
you,
Whosoever
committeth
sin
is
the
servant
of
sin.
Joh 8:35 And the servant abideth not in the house forever: but the Son abideth ever.
Joh 8:36 If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.
Joh 8:37 I know that ye are Abraham's seed; but ye seek to kill me, because my word hath no place & lt; FONT
color=#ff0000 size=3>in you.
Joh 8:38 I speak that which I have seen with my Father: and ye do that which ye have seen with your father.
Joh 8:39 They answered and said unto him,
Abraham is our father. Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham.
Joh 8:40 But now ye seek to kill me, a man that hath told you the truth, which I have heard of God: this did not Abraham.
Joh 8:41 Ye do the deeds of your father. Then said they to him, We be
not born of fornication; we have one Father, even God.
Joh 8:42 Jesus said unto them,
If
God
were
your
Father,
ye
would
love
me:
for
I
proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I
of
myself,
but
he
sent
me.
Joh 8:43 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.
Joh 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
Joh 8:45 And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not.
cd: Hebrews
2:18: For in that
he himself hath suffered being tempted, he is able to succor
them that are tempted.
We have on record that
he was tempted in the wilderness in the same three areas
A&E
were in the garden;
where they flunked, he passed that test. Then he was
tempted in the
garden of Gethsemane not
to obey the Father and he overcame there. All the rest is
pure
speculation.
cd: To be Holy (including tender
hearted) and see sin -in the temple-in the hypocrisy of the
Pharacees-In the rejection from His own people because they
liked sin more Judy is to suffer-I do the same thing while out
on the streets with unbelief and sin.
Clark wrote:
Heb 2:18 - For in that he himself
hath suffered - The maxim on which this verse is
founded is the following: A state of suffering disposes persons
to be compassionate, and those who endure most afflictions are
they who feel most for others. The apostle argues that, among
other causes, it was necessary that Jesus Christ should partake
of human nature, exposed to trials, persecutions, and various
sufferings, that he might the better feel for and be led to
succor those who are afflicted and sorely tried. This sentiment
is well expressed by a Roman poet: -
Me quoque per multas similis fortuna
labores
Jactatam hac demum voluit consistere
terra:
Non ignara mali, miseris succurere
disco.
Virg. Aen. i., v. 632.
"For I myself like you, have been
distressd,
Till heaven afforded me this place of
rest;
Like you, an alien in a land unknown,
I learn to pity woes so like my own."
Dryden.
"There are three things," says Dr. Owen, "of which
tempted believers do stand in need:
1. Strength to withstand their
temptations;
2. Consolations to support their spirits under
them;
3. Seasonable deliverance from
them.
Unto these is the succor afforded by our High Priest
suited; and it is variously administered to them:
1. By his word or promises;
2. By his Spirit; (and, that
1. By communicating to them supplies of grace or
spiritual strength;
2. Strong consolation;
3. By rebuking their tempters and temptations);
and
3. By his providence disposing of all things to their
good and advantage in the issue." Those who are peculiarly
tempted and severely tried, have an especial interest in, and
claim upon Christ. They, particularly, may go with boldness to
the throne of grace, where they shall assuredly obtain mercy,
and find grace to help in time of need. Were the rest of the
Scripture silent on this subject, this verse might be an ample
support for every tempted soul.
I am also allowing Christ,s
divinity for the entire time he walked the earth- but I
do not allow for Him to not be wholly God and to
not be wholly Human .
Again I ask you Dean - what is
wholly God and wholly human? Explain it to me.
What does
it
look
like? People just parrot it all over the place
because it is supposed to be "orthodox"
Who
cares if it makes sense or
not.
cd:He- not "it". He Look just
like a beautiful man completely filled with the Holy Spirit
Judy- beyond measure.
When I say "it" I mean
Wholly God and Wholly human. Like - what does love look
like, what does justice look like?
cd: He looks like God in the
inner parts-with a glow of purity about Him from
righteousness,truth and Justice-and a man on the outer
parts.
cd: I accept it in love Judy,thank
you-nor do I want to be opposed to you-I just want to express
the truth that I know. The only liars would be those opposed to
truth-I see non here doing that-they are only a stubborn
lot-excluding the Mormons.
Thanks Dean; I hope we
are communicating
Grace and Peace to
you..... judyt
cd: I think were are
sister-family can discuss truth and still be family.May God
bless you Judy:-)
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