Lance quotes Debbie:
a false rumour has the power to destroy a person.
Considering the truthfulness of this statement, I would like to clarify
some
things because it has come to my attention that John is engaging others on
this forum in gossip about me. John tells me that he will not courtesy
copy
me on any of these communications about me. His grapevine involves at
least
four other TruthTalk members. I cannot force him not to gossip, nor can I
force anyone to turn away their ear from hearing gossip and falsehoods,
but
when I know of it occurring, I can shine a light upon it and urge you all
to
turn away from listening to gossip about others.
John and I have had some private exchanges wherein he has clarified a
number
of things concerning his attitude toward me.
1. He believes that I am a false prophet.
2. He believes that I am a fraud and that I am addicted to fraud.
3. He believes that I am addicted to arrogance.
4. He believes that I am addicted to deceit.
5. He believes that I am addicted to the false witness of the beliefs of
others.
6. He believes that I am a backstabber, and that I have backstabbed him.
7. He believes that I am allowing a lie to rule the day.
8. He believes that a good amount of my life is a lie.
9. He believes that I claimed to "be a Ph.D." and that I tried to make
others believe that I had a Ph.D.
10. He claims that there are four other TruthTalk members who believe
that
I pretended to have a Ph.D.
11. He believes that I claimed to be an apostle.
12. He believes that it was his persistent questioning that exposed these
falsehoods of a Ph.D. degree and apostolic function that I was supposedly
trying to convince everyone else to be true about me.
13. He believes that I have set myself up as a judge.
14. He believes that I speak ONLY from personal bias.
15. He believes that there is scarcely a single post addressed to him from
me that does not have something personal and insulting.
16. He believes that I have made false claims about successes as a street
preacher.
17. He believes Dean has elevated the moderator position to that of judge
and jury.
18. He believes Dean is a coward.
19. He believes Dean hides behind the testimony of confused and weak
women.
20. He believes that Dean is no different than southern hicks who hung
blacks, burned churches, and killed those who opposed their ignorance.
21. He believes that Dean lacks integrity.
22. He believes that Dean and Judy are lying about him asking for her
Pastor's name in order to get his opinion on her teachings.
23 He tells me that SEVERAL on TruthTalk have told him that I am a scary
fellow.
24. He believes that he was expelled for a lie.
25. He believes that my questions about his leadership role and my
interest
in talking with those in leadership with him constituted a threat.
26. He believes that I had the notion of vengeful activity toward him.
27. He believes that I wanted to expose him to his pastor, but what I was
going to expose is not stated.
28. He believes that I wanted to speak evil about him.
29. He has no reason to believe anything I say.
30. He believes that I am profoundly ignorant.
31. He believes that there was nothing ad hominem in his treatment of me.
32. He believes that he knows the real reason he was expelled and it is
not
the reason that I think it was.
33. He makes it clear to me that I am not his friend.
34. He believes that I am a cultist without a cult.
35. He believes that my evil is profound.
Very clearly, communication between us has completely broken down. These
recent disclosures have caused a total lack of trust on my part toward
John.
It disturbs me that others on TruthTalk are engaging in gossip with him.
I
consider gossip a sin, and I urge anyone who is engaging in it and
allowing
their minds to be soured by this man to reconsider what they are doing.
John has said that several of you think I am a scary person because I
asked
John which of the Foursquare pastors in his community he was working with.
I want to clarify some facts about this right now.
When John said his leadership role was pastor, and he gave me his city, I
looked up on the Foursquare directory the church there. Instead of John
Smithson listed there, it was another man. John had said in the past that
his church was large, so I assumed that perhaps he was an associate pastor
or assistant pastor. This led to me writing and asking John about it.
This
post follows:
===============================
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org>
Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2006 3:16 PM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding
John wrote:
... I speak as one who is leadership.
David wrote:
What is your leadership position
in your local church?
John wrote:
Pastor. I am one no matter where I
attend. Does it sound arrogant for me
to tell you that I am the pastor of Sanger,
California?
No, not necessarily, but the way you have answered this is a little
perplexing.
I see that Joe Villalobos is the pastor of record for Sanger Foursquare
Church, 831 O St., Sanger, California. Do you consider Joe to be your
pastor? Would you mind if I called him and talked to him about your
leadership role in the church?
Or is your fellow pastor someone else? Roger Whitlow, Carlos Avila, Keith
Jizmejian, or Willard Wolverton?
Who is in leadership with you in your gift of pastor?
David Miller.
===============================
The next post indicated my consideration of calling the pastor. The phone
number was listed there right next to his pastor's name, so the temptation
to call was pretty strong. I could have had some answers right away, but
I
did not call because I was not sure how John would feel about me
interjecting myself into his personal life. Seeing how things played out,
that was a wise decision, not to call.
===============================
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org>
Sent: Friday, February 17, 2006 10:40 AM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding
JD wrote:
It's just surprising to realize that David took
time out of his busy day at the Univerisity and
software sales to research as much as posible
his old buddy, John Smithson.
LOL. John, I did not research "as much as possible" or I would have made
phone calls and found out a whole lot more. Then I would have REALLY
dazzled somebody. As it is, when you mentioned Sanger, it only took me a
few minutes to look up the pastor of record for Sanger Foursquare Church.
I'm just not sure if that is your actual church. I was not real
comfortable
calling him without talking to you first. I was not sure how you would
feel
about that. Do you attend this church, or another one in the Fresno area?
You were the one who brought up your speaking from a leadership position,
hence my curiosity.
David Miller.
===============================
Now some of you, according to John, see something sinister in my
consideration of calling the pastor of the church I had understood was
John's home church where he was in leadership as a pastor. Later I have
learned that John no longer attends this church. Now he attends a Baptist
church. At the time, however, I only remember John representing himself
as
a Pentecostal attending a Foursquare church. Now he represents himself as
being in leadership as a pastor. Was John being humble in the past and
not
advertising his leadership role? I didn't know, but I was curious. You
can
read whatever you want into it, but I was simply interested in talking
with
fellow leaders so I could understand the leadership perspective from which
John says he was speaking to me. I see it no different than if John were
staring at my pastor's name and phone number and called him to learn about
the leadership role I am in here in my community. Right now, I am still
very unclear of John's leadership role. He still claims to be a leader,
but
a leader of what? His own house? That's fine, but if that is what he
means
by speaking from leadership, I would like to know that. Such is a little
different than a man who is leading from the position of being a pastor
over
a large congregation.
I encourage any of you who think there was something scary or evil in my
motivations to please read these emails again and consider that such was
never a part of my perspective. It is very difficult for me to see how
any
of you would perceive anything inappropriate with my posts.
Now concerning John's suspension, I want to point out a few things.
1. Dean is the moderator and he is the sole person with the authority to
remove people from the list, if he deems such necessary. We do not make
joint decisions about this. Obviously, if I were to see something
inappropriate on Dean's part, I would step in to correct it. I think Dean
would welcome such too. However, as long as he is acting in accordance to
righteousness and holiness, I keep my hands off of the matter. In regards
to John's suspension, this was completely Dean's decision.
2. From my understanding of this matter, John was suspended for ad
hominem
style posts that he would not apologize for. For example, he sent the
following post about me:
===============================
----- Original Message -----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org ; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: Friday, February 17, 2006 5:25 PM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding
Picture the format of a typical political cartoon. See David Miller
towering over a rather humble looking John Smithson. David's eyes are
narrow and his rather bushy eyebrows have a devilish slant to them. A
smile is on his face, one which some would confuse with a snear. His
hands
are behind his back --- clutching a large butcher knife dripping with
the
fresh blood of a previous opponent as he speaks these words:
"If you are open to my questions, then please tell us the name of your
church and the pastors with whom you are in leadership there. You said
you
were a pastor in Sanger. Is that pastor of Sanger Foursquare Church or
some
other fellowship? If I am misunderstanding something that you were trying
to communicate, then please clarify. Thanks."
Get the picture?
jd
===============================
Such hardly contributes to our discussion. He falsely characterizes me as
a
murderer, acting out of deception and hatred toward him. Such deters from
profitable discussion. John denies that this post is ad hominem. Dean
mentioned a hypocrisy in John asking Judy about her Pastor and BSF yet
going
ballistic over me doing something similar with him. Now John is
representing to others that he was suspended for posts done before his
previous suspension, posts that two witnesses (Dean and Judy) claim he did
but which he claims he did not do. He thinks such is unjust because those
posts have not been produced. The problem with his reasoning here is that
these posts of the past are not why he was suspended. They only point out
a
hypocrisy, urging him to reconsider and apologize for behavior like that
illustrated in the post that I just quoted above. If he wants a post that
warrants suspension, it is this one above that illustrates the kind of
post
that detracts from useful discussion concerning issues rather than other
TruthTalk members.
I have been very patient with John and am more than willing to engage him
in
discussion of this issue or other issues. He refuses to include me in his
dialogue with others where he talks about me. I think that is wrong. He
is
a pastoral counselor and should know better than this.
I'm sorry for the long post, but I wanted to clarify this matter and urge
others not to engage in behind-my-back style gossip. John has made it
clear
that I am not his friend, and the way he views me is such that if I
believed
his testimony about me, I would not consider myself to be in Christ. If
John wants back on this list, all he has to do is write Dean and humble
himself and agree to the order that Dean is enforcing for the list. If he
does not want to participate on this list, he can go elsewhere. There are
lots of discussion lists. If he wants to gossip and turn people against
me
and Dean, that is an evil work, and nobody, whether Christian or
non-Christian, should engage in that.
David Miller.
----------
"Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may
know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6)
http://www.InnGlory.org
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