Re: [TruthTalk] Comfort the FORNICATORS!

[knpraise]

 

Yes ,  I charge for the sessions  --------------    $45  for an hour and 20 minutes.    I try to work myself out of a job within 6 sessions but will "coach"  (read:disciple) them afterwards.    I used to offer the help for no charge   --  no one took me serious until they were vested in the program.   If they run out of money during the sessions , they are continued with no further charge.   In almost every case where this has been necessary,  the clients cintinue to be quite involved.

 

Regarding Joanna's efforts   --  I think  if you review her comments, you will see that she is clearly doing the lord's work as she continues with these who are hurting. 

 

I have quite a prepared rant concerning secular counseling   --  but I tend to keep that to myself.   I am a pastoral counselor, not a healthcare provider.   The rules are different for me than for others and I work within that framing.  If my counseling conflicts with any received by the client,   I cancel the sessions until the client is finished with her provider. .......   too confusing for the subject. 

 

jd

 

 

 

 

 

-------------- Original message --------------
From: Judy Taylor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

 

 

On Thu, 16 Mar 2006 18:01:10 +0000 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

When I counsel someone, Judy, do you know how I know that the opportunity is over  --  for absolute certain?  

When they quit coming to the meetings. 

 

I guess so JD; if they are not present then there is noone there to counsel.  I don't know if you charge for

your time or what you think is your area of expertise but I do personally believe that finding good counseling

in today's church is like finding hen's teeth for those seeking it while ATST there are a plethora of ppl with

shingles out ready to listen for an hour for $90 to $125.  Are you one of these JD?

 

We should never  (or, at least, very seldom) decide for the "sinner" when time enough has been spent.  The carnality of the believer often takes long periods of time to overcome  -  even if God alone is the counselor  (ala Job.)

 

Job's counsellors were more trouble than anything because they had no spiritual discernment which is the

problem with many out there today also.

 

Apparently, then, we agree that Joana is doing the Lord's work the Lord's way.  jd

 

I wouldn't make a judgment about that JD; I don't know what Joanna is telling these ppl. If she is giving them a

false security then she is not doing the work of the Lord.  If she is warning them of what is to come that is

another matter entirely.

 

From: Judy Taylor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

 

 

On Thu, 16 Mar 2006 14:53:34 +0000 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

David,  I honestly see a huge difference.  

Joanna seems to believe that those with whom she is working are in need of help  --  

 

Maybe they are in need of help but from what Joanne says they are not open to receive it ..

the way I remember it, the partner was bitter against the Church for supposedly judging them

which would lead one to believe that nothing has changed.

 

the Corinthians were perfectly content with doing absolutely nothing.  

 

How do you know they were content with doing nothing?  Some of the greatest altruistic works

are done by out and out blasphemers and sinners.

 

Our churches should be full of sinners willing to ask for help, willing to receive teaching, love,

prayer and the spirit. 

 

The "willing" part is the crux of the issue JD. Some are willing to receive practical help on

their terms .. or they want the cover of love but do not want to part with their sin and tolerating

this kind of thing in the name of the Lord is pride. Paul judged it even in his absence because

if this kind of thing persists the presence of God leaves and we must turn to marketing etc.

like the Purpose Driven fellow is about.

 

I see no similarity between Joanna and the Corinthian Carnals.  I know that you have spoken

out against the church as a "hospital," in the past and I am always surprised at such thinking. jd

 

Do you recall Jesus asking the man at the pool of Bethseda "do you want to be made well?"

Valid question. Some want the love and attention while they coddle their soul sickness.

 

From: "David Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

> John, in my opinion based upon sketchy details, Joanna violated the teaching
> of Paul. Paul dealt with fornicators by instructing believers not to even
> eat with them. Paul rebuked the carnal Corinthians for doing the same thing
> Joanna was doing. Don't you see that? It is a difficult position to take,
> but that is the Scripture of 1 Cor. 3:1ff, 1 Cor. 5, etc.
>
> Now, we don't hear all the facts about her situation, so there are other
> possibilities here. Perhaps Joanna did not know this person very well and
> had not had time to instruct the person in righteousness. If this person
> responds to her admonition that such is wrong, then I don't have a problem
> with her eating with the person. However, if this person is a believer who
> knows better and ju stifies his fornication with the notion that every body
> sins, then we have a problem along the lines of 1 Cor. Do you see it
> differently?
>
> David Miller
>
> p.s. I have eaten with ignorant Christian fornicators many times and will
> continue to do so, but it is because of their ignorance. There are others
> that know better with whom I have had to carry the cross and cut them off,
> even a family member ala Luke 14:26.
>
>