2014-03-06 11:04 GMT+01:00 Cédric Krier <cedric.kr...@b2ck.com>: > On 06 Mar 10:27, Àngel Àlvarez Serra wrote: > > 2014-03-06 10:02 GMT+01:00 Cédric Krier <cedric.kr...@b2ck.com>: > > > On 06 Mar 09:25, Àngel Àlvarez Serra wrote: > > > > > >> PDA mode its a simple workarround to show data (with bootstrap you get > > >> it out of the box). > > > > > > Please stop dreaming that bootstrap solves everything that's absolutly > > > wrong. More over bootstrap limits a lot the possibilities of designs > > > because it has a specific vision about how *document* must be > presented. > > > PDA mode is not a workarround, it is a solution hardly thought to solve > > > the small screen size issue without breaking the user experience and > > > without having to change the existing view definitions. > > > > > >> > > > I am not a dreamer. > > I don't want to change the existing view definitions. > > I would like to work properly with desktop, tablets and mobile and > > bootstrap (or other framework) helps to do that. > > Please explain for which part is bootstrap helping? > All, I see in this discussion is just the willing to replace the default > table structure of form view (core definition of the form/group tags) by > a fluid grid system. This is just a paradigm change which could be done > if it is implemented on both clients and of course all the existing > views are reviewed. > The fluid grid is not the only solution for small screen and other one > is the so PDA mode. Also as I already said, I think the PDA mode in sao > will be lighter than a fluid grid based on CSS. > > If we go back about other concern for no-mouse environment, bootstrap > doesn't help on this topic. Indeed a solution will be to use JQuery > Mobile to enable some «mobile» specific events. > > > >> >> For me, similarity of sao and gtk not means they have to be > IDENTICAL. > > >> > > > >> > If we don't so we can drop one of the two clients. > > >> > > >> No, We need two clients have the same funcionality although data are > > >> shown in different manner. > > > > > > Not possible, showing the data is a functionality. > > > > Yes but it can be less strict > > No it can not or at least I don't want to maintain two different > behavior for both client because it will lead to many small hack > requests for modules to fix the gap. > > > > You just say that the order of the fields are important so the order > is a > > > functionality and this functionality is implemented in Tryton with the > > > XML view definition. > > > > But I want to respect xml definition when screen size permits, and for > > small devices adjust form and tree, I don't want > > a pda mode working on 10' tablet because on most cases a full desktop > > works, but some views are terrible. On 7' tablet > > it's diferent... > > Who says that? > > > I don't want to have X modes for X cases. > > Please enumerate the cases?
I will try to summarise the discusion, also what involves Emma. We have a web client one of its goals is mantain an IDENTIAL behaviour of GTK client. This client have some CPU consumption issues noticed by Emma that affects specially the mobile devices and the usability problem of presentation in mobile devices. She proposes (with a patch) to move to Bootstrap to take advantatge of its fluid grid system. Ced and Nicoe say that there is the PDA mode in GTK, that could be replicated in SAO, that could solve the problem of presentation in small screens and it is consumption saver. Some people argue that have a fluid system give the advantatge to be more flexible to different screen sizes. And there is also the discusion if these flexibility breaks the goal of SAO that mantain the behaviour of GTK client, and if it is true, if this goal is more important than the benefits of fluid system. At the end, we have to remember the maintenability. During the discusion, Emma open a fork to could evolve its PoC. I think we can (and have to) merge our efforts, and I think there is a solution: add the two modes (normal and PDA) to SAO, the normal mode mantains an strongly identical behaviour of GTK client and the PDAs mode implements a fluid system to could adapt to different screen sizes. As I explain after, technically I think it's doable and easy. Ced talk about small screens, but nowadays we have lot of screen sizes and as much we are able to adapt to these diversity more competitive we will be. With the two modes you ensures that there is a way to see all windows as its expected, but with fluid mode (not only for the fluid mode also for design decisions that will be done in this direction) the main menú, the position of labels and other stuff can be hacked in CSS to adapt better to other sizes, accepting that could be some view (provably very little cases) that it's not shown perfect, but the user can change the mode. An advice can be shown when you change to PDA mode that this mode can have some issue and the instructions to return to normal mode from anywhere. And how to do and maintain that? Looking the Emma's patch (and for my own little experience in the SAO's source code), it requires little changes in the JavaScript side, so it can be implemented that if the mode is PDA it puts DIVs and other stuff. The change between modes is done by the user and it can imply a change in the URL/URI to load other index.html which load the Bootstrap stuff only if you are in the PDA mode (or other solution). This change have to be done in the SAO's core, but from there the PDA's mode can be evolved by Emma (and other contributors, I hope) in a separate repository to be more flexible with commits. The agreement is to maintain these fork updated with changes in SAO's trunk (I can help with this). When the PDA mode will be finished it is merged to trunk. What do you think? -- Guillem Barba http://www.guillem.alcarrer.net 2014-03-06 11:04 GMT+01:00 Cédric Krier <cedric.kr...@b2ck.com>: > On 06 Mar 10:27, Àngel Àlvarez Serra wrote: > > 2014-03-06 10:02 GMT+01:00 Cédric Krier <cedric.kr...@b2ck.com>: > > > On 06 Mar 09:25, Àngel Àlvarez Serra wrote: > > >> > And what is not working with the PDA mode? > > >> > > >> Because it's not only to show data: > > >> * you need to naviagate data without a mouse, > > > > > > That's GTK/Xorg problem > > > > I'm not talking about GTK/Xorg. > > So what are you talking about? > > > >> * you need to show required fields first to avoid infinite scrolls > > > > > > First, it is wrong. There are not need to show required field first if > > > they have a default value. > > > > But it interesting to see required fields first on small devices because > > it is required data to fill. > > I don't understand how you can define what is more interesting than > others just base on the requirement property. If it was so simple, we > should not need to design views. > If I take your words: for a sale, the company field has to be shown > first instead of the lines despite it is filled by default value and can > not be changed. > > > > Seoncd, it is the job of designing the view, you can not make an > > > algorithm that «computes» the «correct» design. > > > > I don't want to design a view thinking on that, I wan't client present > me data > > depending on device. > > So if I understand you correctly, you want us to drop the view design > and generate default view depending on some parameters (which one?) from > the device. If you succeed to provide such algorithm, I will be the > first to include it. > > > >> PDA mode its a simple workarround to show data (with bootstrap you get > > >> it out of the box). > > > > > > Please stop dreaming that bootstrap solves everything that's absolutly > > > wrong. More over bootstrap limits a lot the possibilities of designs > > > because it has a specific vision about how *document* must be > presented. > > > PDA mode is not a workarround, it is a solution hardly thought to solve > > > the small screen size issue without breaking the user experience and > > > without having to change the existing view definitions. > > > > > >> > > > I am not a dreamer. > > I don't want to change the existing view definitions. > > I would like to work properly with desktop, tablets and mobile and > > bootstrap (or other framework) helps to do that. > > Please explain for which part is bootstrap helping? > All, I see in this discussion is just the willing to replace the default > table structure of form view (core definition of the form/group tags) by > a fluid grid system. This is just a paradigm change which could be done > if it is implemented on both clients and of course all the existing > views are reviewed. > The fluid grid is not the only solution for small screen and other one > is the so PDA mode. Also as I already said, I think the PDA mode in sao > will be lighter than a fluid grid based on CSS. > > If we go back about other concern for no-mouse environment, bootstrap > doesn't help on this topic. Indeed a solution will be to use JQuery > Mobile to enable some «mobile» specific events. > > > >> >> For me, similarity of sao and gtk not means they have to be > IDENTICAL. > > >> > > > >> > If we don't so we can drop one of the two clients. > > >> > > >> No, We need two clients have the same funcionality although data are > > >> shown in different manner. > > > > > > Not possible, showing the data is a functionality. > > > > Yes but it can be less strict > > No it can not or at least I don't want to maintain two different > behavior for both client because it will lead to many small hack > requests for modules to fix the gap. > > > > You just say that the order of the fields are important so the order > is a > > > functionality and this functionality is implemented in Tryton with the > > > XML view definition. > > > > But I want to respect xml definition when screen size permits, and for > > small devices adjust form and tree, I don't want > > a pda mode working on 10' tablet because on most cases a full desktop > > works, but some views are terrible. On 7' tablet > > it's diferent... > > Who says that? > > > I don't want to have X modes for X cases. > > Please enumerate the cases? > > -- > Cédric Krier - B2CK SPRL > Email/Jabber: cedric.kr...@b2ck.com > Tel: +32 472 54 46 59 > Website: http://www.b2ck.com/ > -- Guillem Barba http://www.guillem.alcarrer.net
