Mark wrote: > ... Upon the first day they > would quickly drop the course as MV offers neither
> an entertainable/WYSIWYG environment For reference, MSDE has/had no UI either but it's used in many environments. MySQL has a command line, plus third-parties offer GUI administration tools. The problem here is that people insist on the MV vendors providing all of the tools, and then we get brain dead utilities that people don't like, and the DBMS vendors don't have the bandwidth to maintain them. If we follow the lead of the mainstream market and leave more to the aftermarket we might make some headway. >, a familiar data structure (to those weened on everything MS) The problem of being second in line is that you need to overcome pre-conceived notions. You either need to be first in line to put a data model into someone's head, thus forcing everyone else to overcome the hurdle. Or just deal with it. Most people are smart enough to understand more than one structure simultanously, like *nix and Win32, and kids especially are quite good at absorbing diverse paradigms. >, a practical purpose for the individual Relational data models aren't taught with any more or less purpose than one might use with MV. I think this is a matter of style. (This point isn't worth discussing.) > nor any seemingly useful employment opportunities. This is a chicken and egg scenario - low user count means low demand for developers, and since people generally measure the success of a product by the volume of job ads, if the job market is down they won't buy the system to employ new people. I personally believe the whole premise is wrong. The MV market doesn't need DBA's so we don't advertise for them. That doesn't mean the job market is down it means our TCO is down. Unfortunately we can't make that point with employers in the classifieds. > I even took the brightest kid in my class... > ... he was clearly not interested in something that looks like > DOS. While I know that there are many 4GL's and GUI overlays for MV, > it still is a huge amount of command-line stuff. I'm sorry but I think this had more to do with approach and implementation than a deficiency in the tools. I think MV people are way too quick to play the DOS card, and in some ways enjoy being the under-appreciated underdog with the best kept secret. Giving the impression that we need the DOS-like shell because nothing else is available is self-destructive in a demo. By citing the command shell as a fast and efficient option, the whole impression is changed. Call it marketing spin - but that's what everyone else is using to sell ideas to your kids and it works. Linux is successful in part because it is driven from the command line. The Linux GUI desktop has yet to enjoy similar success. Being GUI isn't enough, there are a ton of X desktops - it's applications that are missing. Many MV environments have a GUI but people are reticent to use the tools. Let's not ignore tools that are available and then blame the environment. If we can't compete without a GUI for system administration then why preytell don't we see more third-parties writing GUI administration tools? Seems like a hungry market to me. > a few of my full-time MV programmer > acquaintenances are now looking at their MV jobs disappearing with > each MV system being replaced. Hopefully they are professionally > versed in other environments as I am endeavouring as well. IT people wear a lot of hats these days, and having multiple skills is required in many environments. Unemployment is likely for anyone who does not continue their education in directions that will (hopefully) benefit their employer. The ability to adapt is a principle of evolution - and those species (people) that don't adapt go extinct (unemployed). TG@ opinions.a.plentyNebula-RnD.com Specializing in GUI and advanced development tools and services for MV. ------- u2-users mailing list u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org To unsubscribe please visit http://listserver.u2ug.org/
