Le 21/11/2011 11:19, Iain Lane a écrit :
Sorry, but it doesn't seem 'clear' to me. Please explain more.
More constructive would have been sound technicals argument that could
have been presented to upstream. Things they would have been able to
work on.
What is 'clear' though is that the default application selection process
should not work like this. I would like to see us learn lessons from
this situation so that our upstreams and users are treated with greater
respect.
Hi Iain,
Thanks for staying constructive in those discussions, I think there is
an agreement than topic has been handled in a pretty suboptimal way and
lessons have been learnt, next time we will for sure do a call for
topics before UDS, lock the list before the session and make sure to
discuss what issues we are having and how we can solve them rather than
trying to kick out things.
Most importantly, we need to be having more constant and constructive
dialogs with upstreams throughout the whole cycle and not just at
application selection time (actually in this case there has been very
poor communcation with upstream even since the discussion).
Right, that requires somebody from the distribution is feeling "in
charge of the software" and is representing the distribution view
though. I don't want to dismiss anyone from the desktop group but nobody
looking at GNOME or Unity has been watching on the media players this
cycle, the work has been mainly done by you and some of the other Debian
pkg-mono people, I'm not sure how the group is feeling like an active
part of Ubuntu and representing the opinions and issues there, or how
much the group is focussing on Debian and considering their derivates as
well?
I don't mean to offence anyone there, but the question is to know if
somebody is feeling like in charge of banshee in Ubuntu and representing
Ubuntu views, or if the people maintaining it are cross Debian,Ubuntu
groups with a focus on Debian (in which case we might need somebody on
the Ubuntu side as we do for i.e GNOME)?
Using the
promise of being on or threat of being removed from the install to
cudgel projects into the direction you want is not very satisfactory.
That's not really what happened, if that was the case we would have come
with a list of "you should be looking at those if you want to stay on
the CD". While it would make sense to tell upstream what we like or
dislike about their software, I'm not sure we should try to "use" our
position to demand things to be done or fixed for us. I would feel
uncomfortable telling any upstream "you should fix those bugs or your
software will be out of the CD", while in practice it's true that some
issues lead us to decide what to ship or not.
Chopping-and-changing doesn't do people any favours either. There should
be some commitment from Ubuntu; being the default app brings upstreams a
lot of users (which is great), but also increases the support and bug
workload (which is not so great). If Ubuntu could be relied on more
then upstreams would not be so burdened.
PiTiVi was treated in a similar way a few months ago. It is sad that no
lessons were learned from that situation. Please do not let it happen
again. None of this should have come out of a UDS session. If there are
such serious issues then they should have been raised months ago.
The pitivi situation is similar, while we could have made a better job
at keeping upstream people in the discussion and decision I don't think
that what we need is "upstream lobbying for their software" during the
discussions, we rather want people who are not part of those project
enough to have a if-possible unbiased view on the pro and con of the
situations. Once we have this summary we could let upstream know the
trend, i.e "we are unhappy with your software because of those reasons:
... and if it keeps this way we might look at replacing it in the next
cycles". I will come back in reply to some of the others emails about
the issues with music players specific case.
--
Sebastien Bacher
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