On Mon, 18 May 2015, Kaj Ailomaa wrote:
On Sun, May 17, 2015, at 06:02 PM, Len Ovens wrote:
Hmm, conversation on menu layout seems to have stopped. However nothing
seems to have been done ;)
So, I am restarting it. Currently we have:
----------------8<--------------
Audio Production
extra SW installer
Mixers (submenu)
Sound Generators (submenu)
Effects (submenu)
Midi Utilities (submenu)
utilities (inline)
applications
Graphics Design
Photography
Video Production
Audio Tools (submenu)
Publishing
---------------8<------------------
We are probably not going to change the Audio menu by much, but for
example:
----------------8<--------------
Audio Production
extra SW installer
Mixers (submenu)
Sound Generators (submenu)
Effects (submenu)
Midi Utilities (submenu)
+ Measurement (submenu)
+ meters
+ frequency graphs
+ Audio Utilities (submenu)
+ low use utilities
utilities (inline)
+ high use utilities
- low use utilities
applications
Graphics Design
Photography
Video Production
Audio Tools (submenu)
Publishing
---------------8<------------------
I think the important thing here is to not add categories in the menu
that are not either a freedesktop category, or a combination of more
than one.
Let's not add stuff to our liking on a whim, but make sure we keep to
standards as far as possible, so we do not confuse the user with
categories that are not found in other places.
Ok, so how does that apply here? Are you saying remove all audio submenus?
Don't add more? The categories in the application desktop files do not
follow anything worth while. Getting them fixed may be possible for some
applications, but often they are not technically wrong. It is why we have
had a custom menu from the beginning. To bring some order to where there
was none. I would suggest that one of the reasons menus are being
abandoned in many DEs, is that the standard is broken/not followed and the
standardized menu is a mess. I have filed the same bug report with 4 or 5
different DEs where their menu definition does not follow the standard or
meet with the intent of the standard. One of them agreed and the rest
decided it was not broken "won't fix". So KDE (which was right from the
beginning) and xubuntu are correct. lxde, xfce, gnome past and present
etc. do not allow the user to be able to reorder the look and feel of
their menu as they should be able to. If you want something done right...
you have to do it yourself... appears to be where this one sits.
If I am to make any changes. I need specifics, not vague comments with no
direction. That is why I proposed using a format like above, A diff kind
of format. The reason for putting it here is that others can see it, tell
me it is wrong (and where) and what the better way would be.
I am quite good at manipulating menus in a way that works with different
DEs. Maybe not so good at knowing what the best layout is.
I do know that "use the standard categories" doesn't work. (certainly not
for the work I do) The use of desktop files is great in that at least a
new application shows up in the menu somewhere, but there is not much
order in things beyond general categories and with the "new" android all
applications shoved into one mess style of DE, there is no effort to fix
any of it either. Development (code, music or other art) and plain work
are no longer well supported with most desktop environments, it is all
about entertainment and that "desktop experience" whatever that is. I have
a computer so that I can use applications and the DE and it's "experience"
better not get in the way of me finding and quickly running those
applications. The experience is good for about ten minutes (if it is
really really good or even "beautiful") after which if there is no order,
it just gets in the way.
My goal in Studio, is to help the user spend as little time as possible
learning how to find things in the DE and as much time doing their work as
possible while still having a profesional look. Not a beautiful look...
unless that just so happens to fall in place with efficiency and
professionalism. Honestly, I would like to see our menu stub work so well,
that other development distros want to include it by default (or parts of
it). In the long term, I would like to see it make it's way into the stock
menus. But I think it has to prove itself first. If developers know that
most audio distros have a menu that uses more specific categories, it will
be worthwhile for them to add them. In the mean time, we have to do it the
hard way.
Sorry for the long rant. But maybe concider it passion for something
better.
--
Len Ovens
www.ovenwerks.net
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