somehow I sensed that the communication gang's question was not in good faith and here we have the proof. Its not like they want to learn anything.
Still, I'm at a loss why this simple fact cannot sink in their brains. I don't know about their cultures, but in all the cultures I know, there are close and distant relatives. For example, the Queen of England has close relatives (her immediate family) who are close to the line of succession (close royals), while she also has distant relatives (distant or minor royals) who are farther away from the line of succession and have really no hope of ever becoming king or queen.
Mulindwa and gang, I'm sure this is not that complicated, is it ? In Buganda, Ssekabaka Muteesa II's offsprings are the closest to the succession line and therefore they are the close royals. I think Mw. Ssenyange has made an effort to explain that to you several times. You will surely appreciate, for example, that the great great grandson of Ssekabaka Mwanga's cousin is a distant royal. This has nothing at all to do with sectarianism. (By the way, if you must use Movement terminology then please do so in the correct circumstances).
I think we have spoon-fed you enough about Buganda matters for now. When we offered to educate you, it did not mean that you just have to sit on your lazy bums instead of finding out things for yourselves that are easily accessible. Information about how princes become kings in Buganda is readily available.
Go and do some research, but don't regurgitate your old baseless allegations and rumours with no iota of evidence. We've been through that several times before.
Kasangwawo
From: "Mulindwa Edward" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: ugnet_: And now this!-Baganda royals back 3rd term\mulindwa Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 21:33:50 -0500
Mwaami Ssenyange
Be very careful with your statements which are splitting hairs, for a critical thinker can very easily use your definition to flip it in a question of How then did this Ssabasajja become a King? And you will end up with a can of worms you did not expect.
So again what makes one a distant or a close Royal in Buganda culture?
Em Toronto
The Mulindwas Communication Group "With Yoweri Museveni, Uganda is in anarchy" Groupe de communication Mulindwas "avec Yoweri Museveni, l'Ouganda est dans l'anarchie"
----- Original Message ----- From: "ssenya nyange" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Friday, December 12, 2003 2:10 PM Subject: Re: ugnet_: And now this!-Baganda royals back 3rd term\mulindwa
>
>
> Mw. Mulindwa,
>
> If you're not among "Abaana be Ngoma" by birth, then you
are
> not a close Royal and will never be a Kabaka, never. Such a royal is only
a
> royal by Clan not a Royal for succession purposes. The same applies to
Clan
> leaders. If you are not in the line ( Olunnyiriri) of the Clan leader (
> Omutaka) you and your offsprings will never become Omutaka. Your line can
> expand as much as it can up to becoming "essiga" but your "ssiga" will
> never produce "Omutaka". For the first time you've asked to know. Keep on
> that way.
>
> J. Ssenyange
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> >From: "Mulindwa Edward" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >Subject: Re: ugnet_: And now this!-Baganda royals back 3rd term\mulindwa
> >Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 22:18:22 -0500
> >
> >Rehema
> >
> >What makes one a distant or a close Royal in Buganda culture?
> >
> >Em
> >
> >
> > The Mulindwas Communication Group
> >"With Yoweri Museveni, Uganda is in anarchy"
> > Groupe de communication Mulindwas
> >"avec Yoweri Museveni, l'Ouganda est dans l'anarchie"
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Rehema Mukooza
> > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2003 7:44 AM
> > Subject: Re: ugnet_: And now this!-Baganda royals back 3rd
term\mulindwa
> >
> >
> > Mulindwa Edward <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Mulindwa:
> >
> > But we can not get that for even Kasangwawo refused to tell us who
> >Kulembeka
> > more from Museveni, Ssabasajja or the distant royals? NONE is
> >Kulembeka from Museveni. Museveni is the one who is Kulembeka from
> >Buganda. Ssabasajja kulembekas from Buganda and outside from donations
of
> >well-wishers (certificates). Going to Rwakitura does not mean Kulembeka
> >from Museveni. Ssabasajja went there to discuss matters of concern to
the
> >Buganda kingdom as the head of Buganda. However, if you are willing to
> >show me evidence to your claims, I might believe you then.
> >
> > Now, what kind of meeting would the "distant royals" be involved in
> >with Museveni if they are not the "official speakers/negotiators" of
> >Buganda?? Are you telling me that they talk about CULTURE with
Museveni??
> > Are you kidding me?!! The distant royals can exercise their freedoms
of
> >speech, it's only that they are not official speakers of Buganda. One
can
> >speak without being the official speaker.
> >
> > Even the "close royals" are not the official speakers of Buganda.
But
> >they too can speak if they want. They can speak without being the
official
> >speakers. However, certain ranks as the Kabaka and Katikkiro are
> >considered as official speakers. There are other official speakers who
get
> >their authority from a concesus of "authorities". ~ Rehema M.
> >
> >
> > Em
> >
> > The Mulindwas Communication Group
> > "With Yoweri Museveni, Uganda is in anarchy"
> > Groupe de communication Mulindwas
> > "avec Yoweri Museveni, l'Ouganda est dans l'anarchie"
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "ssenya nyange"
> > To:
> > Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2003 8:07 PM
> > Subject: RE: ugnet_: And now this!-Baganda royals back 3rd
> >term\mulindwa
> >
> >
> > >
> > > Mw. Mulindwa
> > >
> > > There is alot you dont know about Buganda and Baganda culture.
> > > Rather that disguising your self, please ask, we shall inform \
> >educate
> > > you. You said:
> > >
> > > --------------------------
> > > >"it is the Kabaka and his appointed officials who speak for
Buganda
> >and
> > not
> > > >some unknown royals." Now that is very interesting if you are
> >telling us
> > > >that the appointed
> > > >officials are more powerful in the Kingdom than the Royals.
> > >
>
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > ----------------
> > >
> > > Mulindwa, is this new to you? Dont you know that the Bataka
> >appointed the
> > > first Kabaka Kato Kintu in a Lukiiko to govern them after helping
> >them to
> > > defeat Bemba Musota? Please get the facts: For a period of time, a
> >woman
> > of
> > > Fumbe ( forgotten her name) ruled Buganda during the time when
they
> >were
> > > searching for the rightful prince ( not any prince). The prince
has
> >to be
> > > "Omwana we Ngoma". Not every prince can be a Kabaka because not
all
> > princes
> > > are among the "Abaana be ngoma" Currently, I think these could be
> >less
> > that
> > > 10.
> > > Secondly, a prince from Abaana be Ngoma is seconded by his father
(
> > Kabaka)
> > > to suceed him. After his death, the altimate authority is rested
> >into the
> > > Katikkiro and 4 or 5 Clan leaders. This means the power lies in
the
> >Bataka
> > > whose authority comes from the 52 Clan members.
> > >
> > > So, the princes and princess of the Balangira ( royal) clan
> > do
> > > not have any say in the kingdom matters. Only the appointed chiefs
(
> > > abakungu), plus the Bataka and Abaana be Ngoma have authority in
the
> > kingdom
> > > matters. Thats why the late Ba Ssekabaka killed the immediate
> >princes (
> > > abaana be Ngoma) for fear of over throwing them. I thint thats why
> > > Kasangwawo called them "non entities"
> > >
> > > J. Ssenyange
> > > ------------------------------
> > >
> > > Mwaami
> > > >Kasangwawo there is a reason why they are called Royals and you
are
> >not.
> > > >And
> > > >it frightens if we start to classify the Royals as who is close
and
> >who
> > is
> > > >not, who is distant and who is not. For a critical thinker can
> >wonder
> > which
> > > >standards you use to decide who is a close Royal and who is a
> >distant
> > > >royal.
> > > >For example you are now using Ssabalangir a's words, is he among
> >the
> > distant
> > > >or the close?
> > > >And is Buganda Kingdom really that sectarian with in its self?
> > > >
> > > >Please enlighten me
> > > >Em
> > > >Toronto
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > The Mulindwas Communication Group
> > > >"With Yoweri Museveni, Uganda is in anarchy"
> > > > Groupe de communication Mulindwas
> > > >"avec Yoweri Museveni, l'Ouganda est dans l'anarchie"
> > > >----- Original Message -----
> > > >From: "jonah kasangwawo"
> > > >To:
> > > >Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2003 8:40 AM
> > > >Subject: RE: ugnet_: And now this!-Baganda royals back 3rd
> >term\matek
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > There he goes again. Back to his elections lies !
> > > > >
> > > > > Firstly, a look at Buganda history shows that there were
indeed
> > > >elections
> > > > > until your hero destroy ed the Buganda institution. So it's
not
> >true
> > that
> > > > > Buganda does not believe in elections.
> > > > >
> > > > > Secondly, you can't keep on criticizing the lack of elections
at
> >Mengo
> > > >while
> > > > > you at the same time oppose federalism, which foresees these
> >very
> > > >elections.
> > > > > It just doesn't add up.
> > > > >
> > > > > Thirdly, bearing in mind the fact that Mengo is still a
cultural
> > > > > institution, it is the Kabaka and his appointed officials who
> >speak
> > for
> > > > > Buganda and not some unknown royals. You might spend sleepless
> >nights
> > > > > moaning about this, but that is a fact.
> > > > >
> > > > > It is of no consequence for you to keep on repeating what I
> >said. Take
> > > >it
> > > >or
> > > > > leave it, these distant royals don't speak for Buganda, and,
as
> >we
> > have
> > > >come
> > > > > to lear n from a royal who matters in Buganda society, they
> >don't even
> > > >speak
> > > > > for the royals. According to press reports, even the
> >Ssabalangira
> > (head
> > > >of
> > > > > the royal clan) doesn't know the people in this group. You are
> > therefore
> > > > > crazy to believe that they can have the authority to speak for
> > Buganda.
> > > > >
> > > > > This is similar to some distant relatives of the Queen forming
> >an
> > > > > association and then claiming that they speak for all English
> >people.
> > > >Worse
> > > > > still, it is like if the Mulindwa communication gang claimed
> >that they
> > > >speak
> > > > > for all Ugandans !
> > > > >
> > > > > Kasangwawo
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > >From: "Mulindwa Edward"
> > > > > >Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > > > >To:
> > > > > >Subj ect: ugnet_: And now this!-Baganda royals back 3rd
> >term\matek
> > > > > >Date: Mon, 8 Dec 2003 18:43:24 -0500
> > > > > >
> > > > > >Kasangwawo
> > > > > >
> > > > > >But record must as well indicate that Buganda as an entity
has
> >never
> > > >had
> > > >an
> > > > > >election, so if Buganda does not believe into an election
then
> >who
> > ever
> > > > > >comes up with any comment must be taken to represent Buganda.
> >For I
> > > >wonder
> > > > > >today what we must do, should we believe these Royals or
> >believe The
> > > > > >Katikiro who was appointed by NRM? Who exactly do we have in
> >Mengo
> > who
> > > >has
> > > > > >the authority to speak for Buganda? And who gave him or her
> >that
> > > >authority?
> > > > > >For whether you want or not, but Mengo leads a whole bunch of
> >people
> > > >and
> > > > > >those people must have a representation, and if a Royal
family
> >does
> > not
> > > > > >have
> > > > > >the authority to speak for the Kingdom and we classify that
> >family as
> > > > > >"These
> > > > > >are minor distant royals who are out to 'kulembeka' from Mu7,
> >who
> > also
> > > >uses
> > > > > >them for his own ends." That surely opens a whole can of
worms.
> > > > > >So I think that to make sense or to put a more light in this
> > discussion
> > > >you
> > > > > >should end you posting by informing the netters who actually
> >has the
> > > > > >authority to speak for Buganda as a collective. For with out
> >that and
> > > >you
> > > > > >decide to attack a Royal family as such, I think it just
shows
> >how
> > > >Buganda
> > > > > >needs a prayer, and who knows may be it will come from
> >Museveni?
> > > > > >It bothers me as well when you allege "These are minor
distant
> >royals
> > > >who
> > > > > >are out to 'kulembeka' from Mu7, who also uses them for his
own
> > ends."
> > > >Can
> > > > > >you actually tell us who Kulembeka from Museveni than
> >Ssabasajja him
> > > >self?
> > > > > >
> > > > > >Get real man here, for some of us have seen him even in
> >Rwakitura its
> > > >self,
> > > > > >so do not even go there.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >Em
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The Mulindwas Communication Group
> > > > > >"With Yoweri Museveni, Uganda is in anarchy"
> > > > > > Groupe de communication Mulindwas
> > > > > >"avec Yoweri Museveni, l'Ouganda est dans l'anarchie"
> > > > > >----- Original Message -----
> > > > > >From: "jonah kasangwawo"
> > > > > >To:
> > > > > >Sent: Monday, December 08, 2003 10:08 AM
> > > > > >Subject: Re: ugnet_: And now this!-Baganda royals back 3rd
> >term\matek
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > Mw. Ssenyange,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > thank you for injecting some sense and insight into this
> >exchange
> > > >which
> > > > > >was
> > > > > > > degenerating into the usual garbage from the usual
quarters.
> >I
> > wish
> > > > > >people
> > > > > > > would ask before commenting on something they apparently
> >have no
> > > >idea
> > > > > >about
> > > > > > > !
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Anyone who knows Buganda would know that there is no
Buganda
> >royal
> > > >of
> > > > > >any
> > > > > > > substance in this group. These are minor distant royals
who
> >are
> > out
> > > >to
> > > > > > > 'kulembeka' from Mu7, who also uses them for his own ends.
> >That's
> > > >the
> > > > > >crux
> > > > > > > of the matter. All this empty talk about this having
> >anything to
> > do
> > > >with
> > > > > > > federalism is utter rubbish.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > EMBIRO ? Nga tuzizaawa ?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Kasangwawo
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >From: "ssenya nyange"
> > > > > > > >Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > > > > > >To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > > > > > >Subject: Re: ugnet_: And now this!-Baganda royals back
3rd
> > > >term\matek
> > > > > > > >Date: Sun, 07 Dec 2003 18:56:08 -0500
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >Mr. Matek,
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > You are the one who is myopic, not Bagand a. The
> > > >royal
> > > > > >Clan
> > > > > > > >is one of the 52 clans of Buganda and I think its
> >population
> > could
> > > >be
> > > > > > > >between 200,000 to 800,000. Read the article properly.
> >Those in
> > the
> > > > > > > >nespapers associated together to form and register their
> > > >organization
> > > > > >with
> > > > > > > >less than 500 members. Why did they form that
organization?
> >You
> > > >dont
> > > > > >know
> > > > > > > >but the reporter gave you a clue. Princess Ndagire with
> >backings
> > > >from
> > > > > >Mu7,
> > > > > > > >Salim Saleh, Kakooza Mutale and Prince Kamanya tried to
> >topple
> > > >Kabaka
> > > > > > > >Mutebi and disturbilize the Kingdom with the sole aim of
> >making
> > it
> > > > > > > >politically toothless, and eventually wiping it ou t.
They
> > > >misculculated
> > > > > >and
> > > > > > > >Baganda behind the Kabaka and Mengo marched to the then
> >cuptured
> > > >Kasubi
> > > > > > > >Tombs without fear of the armed Saleh, Mutale & co, and
> > eventually
> > > > > >took
> > > > > > > >over the Tombs. Their step #1 failed misarably. Within a
> >month,
> > the
> > > >the
> > > > > > > >over powered armed Ndagire was enlisted in the
president's
> >office
> > > >and
> > > > > >later
> > > > > > > >given the post of special adviser. She is still an
> >"adviser" to
> > > >Mu7.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Any logical sane person cannot construe from the
> > > >above
> > > > > > > >history and current situation that Kabaka Mutebi, Mengo,
> >Buganda
> > > >Royals
> > > > > >(
> > > > > > > >majo rity) and Baganda are part and parcel of this group!
> >The
> > > >tactics
> > > > > >mu7
> > > > > >is
> > > > > > > >using in the north, are basically the same in the west (
> > Kigezi ),
> > > >East
> > > > > >and
> > > > > > > >Buganda. He has been telling his philosophy to Ugandans
but
> >they
> > > >dont
> > > > > >get
> > > > > > > >it. He always tells of "ensenene" ( grasshoppers) being
put
> >in a
> > > >tin
> > > >by
> > > > > >Man
> > > > > > > >( mu7). one type of grasshopper ( kulunkalu) bites off
> >another
> > type
> > > >(
> > > > > > > >kulumbisi) and another type ( mulangira) etc. without
> >realising
> > > >that
> > > > > >their
> > > > > > > >enemy is man (mu7) who put them in a tin is hiding
somewhre
> > waiting
> > > >for
> > > > > >his
> > > > > > &g t; >turn to bite. I think this reminder will put this
> >nosense to its
> > > > > >ending.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >James Ssenyange
> > > > > > > >------------------------------------------------------
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > > > > > >>Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > > > > > >>To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > > > > > >>Subject: Re: ugnet_: And now this!-Baganda royals back
3rd
> >term
> > > > > > > >>Date: Sun, 7 Dec 2003 15:55:24 EST
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >>In a message dated 12/7/2003 3:39:12 PM Eastern Standard
> >Time,
> > > > > > > >>[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >> >
> > > > > > > >> > I start by lookin g what we have on the ground
> > > > > > > >> >
> > > > > > > >> > 1) We are sleeping today
> > > > > > > >> > 2) We have the kingdom
> > > > > > > >> > 3) We hold the Vice presidency post
> > > > > > > >> > 4) When Museveni gives us Federalism Ssabasajja will
> >lead
> > > >Uganda
> > > > > > > >> >
> > > > > > > >> > What is wrong with supporting a third term?
> > > > > > > >> >
> > > > > > > >> > Em
> > > > > > > >> >
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >>EM:
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >> A wise politician once told me that in politics you
must
> >make
> > > >your
> > > > > >move
> > > > > > > >>very
> > > > > > > >>caref ully. You must make your move bearing in mind the
> > > >implications
> > > >of
> > > > > > > >>such
> > > > > > > >>moves three, four, ten years from now on you.
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >>Let us face it... Buganda is part and parcel of Uganda
> >whether
> > one
> > > > > >likes
> > > > > > > >>it
> > > > > > > >>or not. Now ask yourself as to whether the move by the
so
> >called
> > > > > >Buganda
> > > > > > > >>royals
> > > > > > > >>will essentially play out well for Buganda Royal with
it's
> > > > > >relationship
> > > > > > > >>with
> > > > > > > >>other Ugandan Tribes five years from now after Museveni
is
> >gone?
> > > >...
> > > > > >You
> > > > > > > >>immediately begin to see the political Mypic of the
> >Buganda.
> > They
> > > >are
> > > > > > > >>pretty much
> > > > > > > >>digging the political grave, so to say, of the so called
> >Buganda
> > > > > >Royals
> > > > > >!
> > > > > > > >>..
> > > > > > > >>especially as it pertains to the Relationship between
the
> > Buganda
> > > > > >royals
> > > > > > > >>and
> > > > > > > >>other tribes of Uganda. I SEE EMBIRO!!!
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>---------------------------------------------------------------------------
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