From: Leo Ssebweze <[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [FedsNet] M7 is on the ropes and Rwanda has to pay
Date: Sat, 18 Jun 2005 22:49:50 +0100 (BST)
Mwami WBK,
I appreciate what you are saying but there is a need to respect other views whether or not one agrees with them. Someone raised the question whether Museveni is justified to continue given his contested place of birth. It is a valid question because it is a 50-50 question. Whether he has held other positions in h igh office is not the question, so did Kagame who was head of Uganda's military intelligence, a position he used to invade another country.
That you may be tired of these arguments is a entirely a matter for you. Others have to be persuaded not bullied. I take Mr Oryema's point that there are currently more important urgent issues that we need to focus on but I disagree that we should talk of nothing else. Indeed we can look for solutions to the thuggery and murdering of Ugandans by NRM over 25 years while discussing other issues of interest. Any sane person is offended by Museveni's treatment of the Acholi in particular and the north in general. Many people who have invested effort into these matters are not all on fedsnet unless there is a coordinator, we are not likely to ace much other moral satisfaction.
lssebweze
WB Kyijomanyi <[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Mr Sebweze:
As Mr Oryema notes it is irrelevant this late to discuss the origin of YKM. Apparently when some of us say this, you see imbecile accusations. Because Rook is a former NASA he thinks everyone has to make a living the way he used to make. Rook do not salivate yet, you are very very far from ever resuming your pastime.
Now, to your comments, in electing YKM to the post of Vice Chairman of the military in Moshi, what were Ugandans thinking?
If you lived in Uganda in 1980 after Binaisa was overthrown, YKM become Vice chairman of the ruling military commision and was thus in line of succession.
You know what, in America, anyone who is not qualified to become President by law cannot become a Vice President or Vice Presidential running mate. I do not therefore find your argument persuasive because YKM in being named Vice Chairman of the Military Commisison he was defacto Vice President in 1980. So the question remains: why did well educated Ugandan at Moshi elevate YKM to a position where he was in line of succession to the highest off ice in the land?
I believe that no court will entertain any suit to determine YKM's origin because Ugandans have slept on their rights for too long. If they did know his origin in the 60s when he served in GSU/office of the President, they had ample time to reflect and rectify their mistakes. Well, in 1979 they named him Vice Chair of the military Commission and was duly named and sworn in as Defense Minister. In 1980 he was among those people who exercised the power invested in them as members of the military Commission to dethrone President Binaisa.
All along on the way Ugandans had a chance to correct their mistake but chose not too. Why.
But on a rather dissapointing note and Mr Oryema just touched on it, how pathetic are we looking if we delude ourselves that apparently the best weapon to get rid of YKM is now to doubt his citizenship. Think about it. A forum of serious Ugandans turning into that. It makes one wonder how long they want to remain in a forum of that calibre? Frankly, it is getting so pathetic by the day. Sad.
Well, what are the lawyers waiting for? They should by now be drafting charges to go to whatever court to challenge YKM suitability for the highest office in Uganda. As they say, get on with it and let this forum AGAIN be what it was meant to be.
For me this is going to be one of my last postings on this forum for a while.
Kyijomanyi
From: Leo Ssebweze <[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [FedsNet] M7 is on the ropes and Rwanda has to pay
Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2005 16:24:24 +0100 (BST)
WBK,
You probably got this one wrong because there is no law that says that once a mistake is committed you must held to it in perpetuity. In any case the other offices M7 held did not require the qualification to have been born in Uganda. Think of another defence because the one you gave is not up to scratch.
lssebweze
WB Kyijomanyi <[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Mr. Ssebweze:
Ugan dans have slept on their rights for too long. If they knew that YKM was not a Uganda, why did they enlist him in the GSU? Why did they elect him Vice Chair of the Military Commission in Moshi? Why did they appoint him Defense Minister and then Minister of Regional Cooperation after Moshi? Why did they clear him to run in the 1980 elections? And why have they elected him since?
It is too late to invoke whatever sections of the constitution now. Blame those who slept on their rights for too long-from the 60s to this date! Tough lack.
Kyijomanyi
From: Leo Ssebweze <[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [FedsNet] Re: M7 is on the ropes and Rwanda has to pay
Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2005 01:00:46 +010 0 (BST)
Thanks. Perhaps M7 now pleads that he is excluded from the provision since it was passed while he was in office? I do not have the constituition at hand but there was something about laws and those holding office to continue on the coming into force of the 1995 NRM constitution.
The other side of the coin is to contend that a person elected under "this constitution" must meet the stated qualification under s102 but there is some grey there to argue that M7 had been cleansed by having held the office, etc.
Has anyone looked to the framers to find out why we needed that provision? And what does Odoki say? What is the perceived/potential threat? Has it been proven?
Is this where Mr Karoli is saying that the banyarwanda numbers protect against any averse finding against Museveni? That may be so today but it cannot be in perpetuity and there is nothing to stop us prosecuting and sentencing retrospectively?
There is room to debate this thing without fear, emotion or any other nonsense. For my part, I will look to Odoki and Hansard to catch the train. If anyone out there wants to be M7 or his pleader - what would be his defence? WBK did claim that M7's right to rule Uganda cannot be contested. I would suggest that this claim needs more evidence since it cannot be a given.
Equally, the electoral commission owes it to us to put in the public domain the evidence produced by M7 to show that he qualified to stand. Otherwise one way to get round the Banyarwanda thing would be to petition the constitutional court with the electoral commission as respodents for failing in their work. As I understand it the burden is on the candidate to produce the evidence on qualification and not the other way round where the electoral commission has to prove that the candidate does not have the requisite evidence . In other words, M7 should have produced a birth certificate, etc before being allowed to stand.
We need to persist with this, if you recall Chiluba's attempt to remove term limits foundered partly on his place of birth. Although not proven but he couldn't prove either that he was born in present day Zambia.
lssebweze
ekissodde <[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
The issue is section 102 of the constitution
Qualifications of President
102. A person is not qualified for election as President unless that
person is -
(a) a citizen of Uganda by birth;
(b) not less than thirty-five years and not more than seventy-five
years of age; and
(c) a person qualified to be a member of Parliament
M7 has been in violation of that provision for the last 20 years
becoz he was born in Kigali.--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Leo
Ssebweze wrote:
Can someone bring me up to speed, what is this talk about
Banyarwanda and Museveni being born in Rwanda? Is it being suggested
that we are hostages to the Banyarwanda reserve? Should we give up
on our country now? What is the issue?
lssebweze
Karoli Ssemogerere wrote:
Mr. Musamize ( or Mr. Ssemakula James):
If you add the Banyarwanda at 2.1% to the Bafumbira at 1.3% you
get 3.4%. These totals more likely than not exclude the Banyarwanda
who due to a history of being harassed and ostracised or other
cultural factors like inter-marriages identify themselves as Baganda< BR> or Banyankole or Bakiga for that matter.
There is nothing to gain from pointing out how "few" or they are.
They are part of Uganda's ethnic communities and Uganda's identity.
How do you identify your Ambassador Ordinary and Plenipotentiary
to the United States: Mrs. Sempala identified herself as a Mukiga
for a long time but is hardly one. The list is endless. Many are
peaceful citizens who have been forced to re-swear their allegiance
each time their presence is threatened in Uganda by flag draped
parochialists.
Infact it is on the record that the Banyarwanda community in
Uganda set a precedent traveling to Rwakitura to support without
reservation a third term for Museveni after they felt that
statements by their leaders like Augustine Ruzindana were causing
them discomfort in their homes, professions, and businesses.
And unfortunately resolving this issue is one of the keys to
Uganda's transition from one regime to another: Ask those who tried
to overthrow Museveni in 1986: and how similar sentiments led them to disaster and demise.
Karoli.
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