Allan Barigye
What you have written is very interesting to critical thinkers and I will directly quote you sir “Knowing what I believe I know about M7, It may take a Luo or with a Luo's help, to remove his gov't if force is ever used. Short of that we are having a Kaguta dynasty for a long while. You are better off aligning with the mucholi again!” And that is a direct quote from your writing early today sir. By insisting that it will take Luo or a combination of Luo with other tribes to remove Museveni by force, you are admitting that Luo are very violent people, that do not use reason to resolve political issues. With that in mind one really wonders why you have opposed the series from the very beginning, when from the bottom of your heart you admit that these folks are truly violent. If I am wrong can you explain why it requires A Luo to remove Museveni by force sir !!!! EM On the 49th Parallel Thé Mulindwas Communication Group "With Yoweri Museveni, Ssabassajja and Dr. Kiiza Besigye, Uganda is in anarchy" Kuungana Mulindwa Mawasiliano Kikundi "Pamoja na Yoweri Museveni, Ssabassajja na Dk. Kiiza Besigye, Uganda ni katika machafuko" From: ugandans-at-he...@googlegroups.com [mailto:ugandans-at-he...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Allan Sent: Saturday, May 09, 2015 5:35 AM To: UAH Subject: Re: {UAH} Pojim/WBK: George Kanyeihamba's side of the Moshi Conference! Deliberately distorting history or ignorance? Mr. Semakula, I have no bias against any single tribe. That said. Knowing what I believe I know about M7, It may take a luo or with a Luo's help, to remove his gov't if force is ever used. Short of that we are having a Kaguta dynasty for a long while. You are better off aligning with the mucholi again! I should ,hover applaud the patience Baganda have. And they have it in abundance. But I am so sorry to tell you that what this gov't has done(screwing up the country) may take generations to undo. That may never include LAND that they have given unto themselves. That will be BLOODSHED! On Sat, May 9, 2015 at 5:08 AM, Abudul Semakula <abudulsemak...@gmail.com <mailto:abudulsemak...@gmail.com> > wrote: Mr Moses Ocen, Dr Arnold Bisase was personally present when the things he narrates happened.I am pretty sure you were not present and are relying on fairy tales from some old Luo men.He was present when Lule was questioned in front of Tanzania's parliament. That is why I chose to believe Dr Arnold Bisase's version of events. So what if Dr Bisase has a bias against Obote? On Fri, May 8, 2015 at 8:33 PM, <ocennek...@gmail.com <mailto:ocennek...@gmail.com> > wrote: Abudul: By believing of all people Arnold Bisase, why shouldn't I also not think that you are deluded? Rugumayo and Dani Nabudere were not exactly paper tigers during that time. Yusuf Luke, never faced the Tanzanian parliament which is referred to 'Bunge,' which further reveals that Arnold Bisase, new less about the goings on than he would like to admit. You are forgetting that Idi Amin blew up parts of Northern Tanzania,and hence the reparations, while Uganda has never admitted it was ever in Rwanda. Ocen Sent from my BlackBerry 10 smartphone. From: Abudul Semakula Sent: Friday, May 8, 2015 20:18 To: ugandans-at-he...@googlegroups.com <mailto:ugandans-at-he...@googlegroups.com> Reply To: ugandans-at-he...@googlegroups.com <mailto:ugandans-at-he...@googlegroups.com> Subject: Re: {UAH} Pojim/WBK: George Kanyeihamba's side of the Moshi Conference! Deliberately distorting history or ignorance? Mr Moses Ocen, Rugumayo,Omwony Ojok and Nabudere were just posing around.The order came from Nyerere after several trips where Lule was summoned to Dar es Salaam to try and make him see the light.If you believe those clowns installed Lule you are seriously deluded . During one of those summons Lule was forced to face the full parliament of Tanzania I forget the name it is called over there. Nyerere told his CCM mbu Lule was ungrateful after all the help Tanzania had given to Uganda in removing Amin. But I told you I have a problem with Prof Kanyeihamba only attending part of the Moshi meeting and now he is passing himself as some kind of authority on the subject.What is bothering Kanyeihamba anyway?.Cant he learn from people like Rugumayo,Omwony Ojok and Nabudere who were offered juicy jobs and are keeping mum in retirement? . For the record if Nyerere was a true friend of Obote he should have done it for free.Do you know how much Uganda paid Tanzania in reparations? Uganda on the other hand removed the govt of Kayibanda in Rwanda for free.Uganda donated half of the UPDF and arms and ammunitions for free.The Rwandese have never paid Uganda a red cent for all of this. Think about it. On Fri, May 8, 2015 at 7:42 PM, <ocennek...@gmail.com <mailto:ocennek...@gmail.com> > wrote: Abudul: I know the story by Arnold Bisase, is a lot sexier for you but the facts are what they are. Yusuf Lule, was removed by the very people who put him there, namely Profs Dani Wadada Nabudere, Omwonyi Ojok, Edward Rugumayo and company. Trying to blame AMO for Yusuf Lule's, political incompetence is a cop out at best. Please reread George Kanyeihamba's account of the events before passing blame to Nyerere or Obote. Ocen Sent from my BlackBerry 10 smartphone. From: Abudul Semakula Sent: Friday, May 8, 2015 19:16 To: ugandans-at-he...@googlegroups.com <mailto:ugandans-at-he...@googlegroups.com> Reply To: ugandans-at-he...@googlegroups.com <mailto:ugandans-at-he...@googlegroups.com> Subject: Re: {UAH} Pojim/WBK: George Kanyeihamba's side of the Moshi Conference! Deliberately distorting history or ignorance? Mr Moses Ocen, The Oyite Ojoks did not help bring Lule to power.Their contribution to the war effort as miniscule.The numbers of Acholis and Rwandese in the army grew exponentially once Lule was removed because the Professor was not giving M7 and Ojok any leeway in recruiting . According to Dr Bisase's book,Yusuf Lule was removed on the direct orders of Mwalimu Julius Nyerere because Lule refused to offer Milton Obote a cabinet post in his admistration. The guys for the NCC ,the Rugumayos,M7 were all just posing because the decision was made in Tanzania and not Uganda. Lule was only in office for 68 days.During that 68 days,the Israelis managed to com and pick up the remains of Dora Bloch. Go figure. On Fri, May 8, 2015 at 7:02 PM, <ocennek...@gmail.com <mailto:ocennek...@gmail.com> > wrote: Abudul: That story about Prof Lule, is not as far fetched as you may think. I do recall that during a press conference just after being sworn in as President of Uganda, a British news reporter asked the new president if he was going to bring the likes of Colonel Isaac Malyamungu, to Justice. Prof Lule confessed the that he did not know who Colonel Isaac Malyamungu was and after a bout of whispering from Akena P'Ojok, he(Lule) went "yes, yes of course we will." After that Prof Yusuf Lule, tried to forget all the people who brought him to power and most of those people were not even members of UPC. If Kikoosi Maalum had only 500 men, please tell us how many fighting men Yusuf Lule had? One thing I will never claim to be able to do is predict whether a Muganda will be in State House in 5 years or a Langi in 100. That is a job for dreamers! Ocen Sent from my BlackBerry 10 smartphone. From: Abudul Semakula Sent: Friday, May 8, 2015 18:37 To: ugandans-at-he...@googlegroups.com <mailto:ugandans-at-he...@googlegroups.com> Reply To: ugandans-at-he...@googlegroups.com <mailto:ugandans-at-he...@googlegroups.com> Subject: Re: {UAH} Pojim/WBK: George Kanyeihamba's side of the Moshi Conference! Deliberately distorting history or ignorance? Mr Moses Ocen, Dr Arnold Bisase helped us by putting some of the fairy tales UPC has been putting out for years. Try this for a start. George Okello was stating on this forum that Yusuf Lule pretended not to know Oyite Ojok although Ojok had been commanding the force that invaded Uganda. For gods sake,Oyite Ojok was only leading Kikosi Malum.The TPDF was commanded by Lt Gen Musuguri..The TPDF had almost 40.000 men.I doubt if Kikosi Malum had 500 men in uniform in 1979. The removal of Lule is a non issue right now because UPC is out of Statehouse and your chances of ever getting back in the next 100 years are almost zero. I rather like the chances of a muganda getting into Statehouse in the next 5 years. Byebange ssebo. On Fri, May 8, 2015 at 11:02 AM, <ocennek...@gmail.com <mailto:ocennek...@gmail.com> > wrote: Abudul: You are being a little loose with the facts. Most of the written narrative about the 'Moshi Conference' are written by non UPC. George Kanyeihamba, Yoweri Museveni, Prof Kabwegyere and Abdul Kasozi are not UPC leaning personalities. There is a reason I want you to present Arnold Bisase's view which can never be described as objective by any means. I am ready with the facts about why Yusuf Lule, was removed as president and by who! Ocen Sent from my BlackBerry 10 smartphone. From: Abudul Semakula Sent: Friday, May 8, 2015 05:40 To: ugandans-at-he...@googlegroups.com <mailto:ugandans-at-he...@googlegroups.com> Reply To: ugandans-at-he...@googlegroups.com <mailto:ugandans-at-he...@googlegroups.com> Subject: Re: {UAH} Pojim/WBK: George Kanyeihamba's side of the Moshi Conference! Deliberately distorting history or ignorance? Mr George Okello, You can feel free reading the UPC versions circulating on the Moshi conference.The fact is UPC is no longer in Statehouse so there are competing versions of the conference. In my opinion a lot of what was offered by our UPC brothers at the Moshi conference was edited or manufactured trash.History is very stubborn it cannot be rewritten and the truth always comes out.The foolishness on the part of Mwalimu Nyerere and Obote helped put an unlikely resident in Statehouse who has been there for the last 30 years! On Fri, May 8, 2015 at 3:17 AM, George Okello <opal...@gmail.com <mailto:opal...@gmail.com> > wrote: Who is Arnold Bisasa? I have never heard of the chap? I wonder whether it is worthwhile reading his book, but by look of it, it seesm to be manifactured trash. George Okello On 5/8/15, ocennek...@gmail.com <mailto:ocennek...@gmail.com> <ocennek...@gmail.com <mailto:ocennek...@gmail.com> > wrote: > Abudul: > > Feel free to narrate Arnold Bisase's side of the story which is also > subjective. > > > Ocen > > Sent from my BlackBerry 10 smartphone. > From: Abudul Semakula > Sent: Thursday, May 7, 2015 22:20 > To: ugandans-at-he...@googlegroups.com > <mailto:ugandans-at-he...@googlegroups.com> > Reply To: ugandans-at-he...@googlegroups.com > <mailto:ugandans-at-he...@googlegroups.com> > Subject: Re: {UAH} Pojim/WBK: George Kanyeihamba's side of the Moshi > Conference! Deliberately distorting history or ignorance? > > The "Guardian Angel" by Arnold Bisase narrates the Moshi conference from > start to finish.Dr Bisase is unapologtically pro Lule.He narrates in > painstaking detail the dishonesty and immorality at play at the Moshi > conference. So most UPC chaps read the book and turn around and tell you > that no one else besides the UPC chaps have written about the Moshi > conference. > > Total baloney if you ask me. > > I would urge anybody who wants to know more about the Moshi conference to > read the book.It shows the kind of charlattans we had sitting at Moshi.It > shows Mwalimu Nyerere in very unflattering colours.He does not look very > saintly if I may say so.The book also narrates Dr Kanyeihamba's level of > involvement in the Moshi conference.The book also touches on British and > Isreali involvement in the removal of Idi Amin.Lule's administration was > short lived but so was Milton Obote's who thought he could slide in by > rigging elections in 1980. > > Most of our UPC chaps would like us to believe that Mwalimu Nyerere with a > little urging from his friend Obote woke up and decided to remove Idi Amin > in 1979. > > I would respectfully say that our UPC friends are being very economical with > the truth when they make these extravagant claims. > > > > On Thu, May 7, 2015 at 9:22 PM, <ocennek...@gmail.com > <mailto:ocennek...@gmail.com> > wrote: >> >> Pojim: >> >> >> I have always said that 'The Moshi Conference,' was one of Uganda's >> monumental events in the country's history. It was as important as the >> Lancaster Conference before independence. >> >> I have read excerpts of George Kanyeihamba's book, where he gives >> insightful views about how then President Yusuf Luke, ran his short >> government. >> >> The fellow(Lule) was out of his depth. >> >> As to why many of the major players during that period, did not write >> books, your guess is as good as mine. Prof Edward Rugumayo, is still very >> alive. >> >> >> >> Ocen >> >> Sent from my BlackBerry 10 smartphone. >> From: 'edward pojim' via Ugandans at Heart (UAH) Community >> Sent: Thursday, May 7, 2015 18:31 >> To: ugandans-at-he...@googlegroups.com >> <mailto:ugandans-at-he...@googlegroups.com> >> Reply To: ugandans-at-he...@googlegroups.com >> <mailto:ugandans-at-he...@googlegroups.com> >> Subject: Re: {UAH} Pojim/WBK: George Kanyeihamba's side of the Moshi >> Conference! Deliberately distorting history or ignorance? >> >> Ocen; >> >> History is indeed written by the victors. >> >> No two writers on the Moshi Conference have come up with the same >> recollection of events there. Whether it's due to mental fog occasioned by >> advancing age, or deliberate twisting of the narrative to elevate the >> writers, we who were not there, are the losers. >> >> We are the losers here because what happened in Moshi in 1979 continues to >> influence our lives today. And since we cannot lay out hands on the >> accurate recollection of those events, we are unlikely to find a solution >> to what is ailing our country. >> >> Pojim >> >> ________________________________ >> From: "ocennek...@gmail.com <mailto:ocennek...@gmail.com> " >> <ocennek...@gmail.com <mailto:ocennek...@gmail.com> > >> To: Ugandans At Heart <ugandans-at-he...@googlegroups.com >> <mailto:ugandans-at-he...@googlegroups.com> > >> Sent: Thursday, May 7, 2015 2:45 PM >> Subject: {UAH} Pojim/WBK: George Kanyeihamba's side of the Moshi >> Conference! Deliberately distorting history or ignorance? >> >> http://www.observer.ug/viewpoint/37719-deliberately-distorting-history-or-ignorance >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Deliberately distorting history or ignorance? >> Last Updated: 07 May 2015 >> [image]I recently read a written account of the ‘UNLF rise and fall from >> power’ by Israel Kayongo and a Dr Peter Senabulya with interest and >> forbearing. >> The interest was aroused by the distortion of what happened at the Moshi >> conference supported by the Tanzanian government and Ugandan exiles. >> Fortunately, many of us who originated, controlled or resolved political >> matters that shaped events both before and after the fall of Idi Amin’s >> regime of 1971-1979 are still alive. >> We remember what happened and who was who in that period of our history. >> Some of us actively participated in the decision-making processes of that >> era. Many of us have written and published materials on the period and >> disagree with some of the observations advanced by Dr Senabulya and Mr >> Kayongo. >> One needs to read Prof Abdul Kasozi’s book, The cause of violence in >> Uganda, to understand the events of the Moshi conference in Tanzania. My >> own contribution in my book Constitutional and Political History of Uganda >> From 1894 to the Present, should not be ignored. >> More so, chapters titled, Age of Militarism in Uganda, Power Rides Naked >> through Uganda Under the Muzzle of the Gun, The National Resistance >> Movement in the Bush and Drama at Mwanza will surely help one to >> understand events differently. >> I personally attended and actively participated in all the meetings and >> decision-making fora both prior and after the Moshi Unity Conference. Mr >> Kayongo and Dr Senabulya attended some but not all meetings relating to >> the events they describe. >> I recall many Ugandans who were invited to Nairobi under different >> missions but all aimed at discussing what to do about the Amin regime. The >> first joint meeting of Uganda exiles from Europe, the USA and East Africa >> was initially held in Nairobi. Many of us had been invited to attend the >> wedding of Stephen Tindikyebwa. >> He was then one of the wealthy Ugandans in exile and was able to >> facilitate the travel and stay in Nairobi of many of us. We planned the >> overthrow of the Idi Amin regime. This was in the night and morning of >> December 31, 1978, and January 1, 1979. >> A few days later, we met with other Uganda exiles, mostly in Kenya and >> from Tanzania, in the business office of Israel Kayongo, who also attended >> that meeting. Within less than an hour, that meeting was aborted because >> of the rumour that the Kenyan security forces were about to raid it, >> arrest and hand us to Uganda government authorities. >> Personally, that was the last time I saw or noticed Israel in any meeting >> of Ugandan exiles. The rumour turned out false, having been started and >> spread by people who did not welcome the unity of all opposition groups >> who wished to oust the Amin regime from power or who had different >> agendas. >> Later, we were invited and assembled in the residence of Prof Tarsis >> Kabwegyere, then a temporal visiting professor at Nairobi University but >> genuinely in exile from the Amin brutality. >> As our host, he was elected chairman of the steering committee we set up >> to head and guide all the decisions of exiles and other Ugandans desirous >> of overthrowing the Idi Amin regime. >> The committee we formed in Kabwegyere’s residence included the likes of >> Drs Yash Tandon, Andrew Kayiira, this writer and Omwony Ojwok. The >> committee became the vital planner and link between all the anti-Amin >> groups and the Tanzanian government of Mwalimu Julius Nyerere and its then >> foreign minister, Benjamin Mpaka. >> Without the courageous contribution of these two great Tanzanian leaders, >> the Moshi conference would not have taken place or succeeded in its >> objectives. The Idi Amin terrorist regime would have lasted much longer >> than anyone wanted. >> While I invite everyone to read the literature referred to earlier, the >> following in Kayongo’s narrative must be corrected. It was not Tarsis >> Kabwegyere who called for the nomination of candidates for the >> chairmanship of the UNLF but the late Semei Nyanzi. >> In a surprise move, members of the steering committee convinced the >> delegates to vote Kabwegyere out of the chair and replace him with Semei >> Nyanzi. Kabwegyere had been slow in realizing that the UPC delegation was >> maneuvering and posturing to frustrate the deliberations. We stopped them >> and Nyanzi turned out to be an excellent and effective chairman. >> There had been exchanges between exiles that Yusuf Lule should become the >> chairman of the UNLF by acclamation and Nyerere had agreed to the choice. >> When Nyanzi called for nominations, Bishop Zacchaeus Okoth literally >> jumped up within seconds of the chairman’s call and nominated Paulo >> Muwanga. >> Most delegates were taken by surprise by this nomination. The late Sam >> Sebagereka, a member of the Uganda Group for Human Rights, almost in >> tears, criticized the bishop for nominating an ardent Oboteist who was a >> liar, a thief and a dishonest rogue. In mid-protests, I whispered to >> Sebagereka to nominate Yusuf Lule, which he did. >> Kayongo narrates that there was a choice between the two candidates. That >> is incorrect. Nyanzi’s skills and experience made him realize that if we >> were divided over the two candidates, the Tanzanian government and people >> would conclude that we were not serious about our agreed objective. >> Therefore, Nyanzi quickly called for adjournment and directed that >> consultations be held to ensure that only one candidate was nominated. >> That is how Lule came to be elected unopposed. >> It is true that had there been an election, Muwanga would have received >> very few votes, mainly of the UPC delegation. However, in nominating >> Muwanga, the UPC strategists knew that Muwanga would not win but they were >> aiming at another post which later turned out to be the most crucial in >> the overthrow of the short-lived administration of Yusuf Lule. >> The UPC had all along wanted to head the military commission of the UNLF. >> They knew its future role in the event of a struggle for power in the >> liberation movement. >> Most of the delegates were ignorant of the importance of the military >> commission. It eventually overthrew the UNLF leadership and handed >> political power back to the former president, Dr Milton Obote. >> In passing, it can be contritely said that many of the events which took >> place at Mwanza town and elsewhere following the overthrow of both Lule >> and Godfrey Binaisa as presidents were in many aspects inaccurately >> reported by Kayongo and Dr Senabulya. >> Anyone interested in knowing the true facts is advised to peruse, >> internalise and compare and contrast Kayongo’s recall of events with other >> publications’ narrations and reports of others. >> The author is a retired Supreme court judge. >> Add comment >> Rules: >> - No abusive language >> - No unsubstantiated allegations >> - No incitement to ethnic, religious or sectarian hatred >> - No incitement to violence >> - No spam >> - No impersonating other people >> Offending comments will be deleted without notice. >> Deliberately distorting history or ignorance? >> http://www.observer.ug/viewpoint/37719-deliberately-distorting-history-or-ignorance >> Sent from my BlackBerry 10 smartphone. >> -- >> Disclaimer:Everyone posting to this Forum bears the sole responsibility >> for any legal consequences of his or her postings, and hence statements >> and facts must be presented responsibly. 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