Jan, When I first heard Ellin's phrase: I know you don't know, but if you did know, what would you say?, my reaction was about the same as what you described - that will never work! Then, I watched Ellin use it with an adult at a workshop with startling results! Later Ellin asked how it made her feel and the teacher answered something like: 'At first I was mad at you for calling on me, using that phrase and leaving all that wait time. But then I discovered I did have something to say.' She added, 'I think if you'd have just gone on to someone else I would have felt pretty dumb. But I felt like I had a good answer!'
We went back to our school and tried it out a little, and it worked there too. Plus, I've seen it work with a sixth grade student. I think one of the keys is calm wait time that suggests the confidence that a student can think and you honestly expect a thoughtful answer. We're thinking the phrase somehow takes the pressure off a student - you aren't looking for the one right answer, and its OK to make a thoughtful guess. Phyllis --- On Sun, 8/3/08, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Subject: [Understand] Mostly Chapter 4 > To: "Special Chat List for "To Understand: New Horizons in > ReadingComprehension"" <understand@literacyworkshop.org> > Date: Sunday, August 3, 2008, 3:50 PM > I've tried to send this message more than once. I'm > sorry if several different versions come through. > > > Yes, Jennifer, what the reader brings to the text is > important. I'm not a fan of Van Gogh, but I love Edward > Hopper. All through chapter 4 I was stuck on what seemed to > me to be a negative catergorization of Hopper's art. > > I also felt that I wanted more information about the > kindergartener Kevin. I wrote in my previous message (far > below) > > > The example of the kindergartener, Kevin, a few pages > later was more > > satisfying for me. I LOVED that kid. I wanted more > insight into how Kevin was > > taught to investigate so deeply. > > and in my book I wrote that Kevin taught himself how to > work so hard and think so deeply. > > I am also wondering if what works with elementary students > might not work with middle school students. Are there any > middle school (grades 6 - 8) teachers on this list? On page > 77 I had a question about the teacher who responded to a > student by saying, "I know you don't know." > In my class, that statement would cause uproar. I would be > accused of calling someone stupid. Can you really say that > in your classes? > Jan > > > -------------- Original message from [EMAIL PROTECTED]: > -------------- > > > > > > Jan > > Well, here we have another example of how important it > is to think about > what the reader brings to the text. I loved the Van Gogh > example because to > > me, > > the painting itself WAS the thinking...visual > representations of his > > attempts to make sense of his world. I saw it as a way > to try to work through or > around his illness. I connected it to the journal I keep or > the emails I send > > to > > colleagues (Like on the mosaic listserv) The process > of writing helps me to > > understand. For Van Gogh, maybe it is the process of > painting that helped > > him to make sense. > > > > I loved the Kevin example too, but it left me with a > lot more questions. How > > did he really make that much meaning as a > kindergartener from this very > > difficult text? Was it the process of creating his > model that he made sense of > > it? Was he a reader at all? What or how much did he > actually read and how much > > came from schema and reasoning it through? This was > the one place in the > > entire book that I felt needed more detail, more > investigation, more > > explanation. > > > > Do you think he was taught to investigate this way? > Surely his class was set > > up for that and probably his teacher modeled...but I > bet that a lot of it > > was the natural curiousity of the very young... > > > > Your students may have giggled and rolled their eyes, > but I would keep it > > up. You probably made them feel uncomfortable because > they don't yet see > > themselves as scholars. I bet you, with time, > they'll get there. > > I am still working on this too. Let's talk about > this some more during the > > school year...I didn't have too much time to try > much before the school year > > ended... > > Jennifer > > > > ================================================================================= > > > n a message dated 7/17/2008 11:39:57 P.M. Eastern > Daylight Time, > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: > > > > Yes! There is a great sense of pride that comes from > working through > > something difficult. > > > > I'm going to share some more of my struggles with > To Understand right now. :) > > > > Tell me what you all make of the information about > Van Gogh on page 48 that > > says, "He became a blind painting machine... He > no longer thought about his > > painting." > > > > I felt as if the example of Van Gogh was > counterproductive. I wanted to > > hear about a painter who did think about his painting. > Van Gogh struggled, but > > I got the idea from To Understand that he struggled > due to his mental > > illness. I wanted a clear cut example of someone who > struggled to understand > > and > > think and try again. > > > > The example of the kindergartener, Kevin, a few pages > later was more > > satisfying for me. I LOVED that kid. I wanted more > insight into how Kevin was > > taught to investigate so deeply. > > > > What have you all done to help students learn to look > deeply and work to > > understand what interests them? I teach 8th grade, > and when I shared my > > enthusiasm with my students last year about half of > them rolled their eyes or > > giggled. Whew! That was hard on me. > > Jan > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Understand mailing list > Understand@literacyworkshop.org > http://literacyworkshop.org/mailman/listinfo/understand_literacyworkshop.org _______________________________________________ Understand mailing list Understand@literacyworkshop.org http://literacyworkshop.org/mailman/listinfo/understand_literacyworkshop.org
