Hai Bung Ibnu Widiyanto, salam kenal, ya. OK, kalau begitu saya salah tanggap. Minta maaf jika saya punya argumen yang mungkin agak 'memojokkan' anggota (netter) yang ingin mengungkapkan uneg-unegnya di sini. Karena saya pikir ini 'tempat umum', jadi saya bisa berpendapat seperti itu. By the way, saya setuju dengan Bung Ibnu, dan saya akan langsung hapus posting email yang berisi atau bernuansa menyinggung hal-hal SARA, setelah membaca isinya. And saya nggak akan menanggapinya. Seperti Bung Ibnu bilang, email kayak gitu akan hilang dengan sendirinya, jika nggak ada reasoning yang kuat. OK ? Thanks a lot atas tanggapannya.
Regards, BAGUS S. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ibnu Widiyanto <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "BAGUS SASMITO" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: RE: [UNDIP] Gereja Melindungi Kriminal (2) Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2002 03:19:23 -0300 Bung Bagus Sasmito en netter lain: Urun nimbrung ya...(walau email bung Bagus ditujukan untuk pak Eko) Saya pikir mailis Undip ini adalah mailis umum...(atau sudah nggak lagi??) Kenapa kita harus melarang orang lain menulis sesuatu... mengeluarkan uneg-uneg or pendapat or komentar... yang "nyleneh" atau yang nggak sama dengan mainstream idep-idep nambah pengetahuan khan boleh... seperti tulisannya Mira dulu yang memuji Timor Leste... boleh saja khan... terus di bantah sana sini...terus Miranya njawab bla.bla.bla kita khan nggak bisa memaksa sesuatu harus sama... ini yang dinamakan menghormati perbedaan... semakin banyak yang berbeda semakin ada dinamika lho... nggak statis...disini ada unsur diskusinya... Ingat perubahan itu diperlukan untuk memperbaiki diri... Tidaklah berubah suatu kaum tanpa kaum itu mau mengubahnya sendiri. Tuhan sudah menunjukkan proses metamorfosa sebagai hakikat perubahan.... kenapa kita harus menghindar.... Bagi saya, silakan saja orang mau berpendapat apapun... Kalau nggak punya reasoning yang kuat khan hilang sendiri... Oke... no offense lah... Salam sejahtera, IW >===== Original Message From "BAGUS SASMITO" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> ===== >Pak Eko, >Tulisan yang bernada mendiskriditkan salah satu agama (atau suku atau ras) >sebaiknya tidak perlu Anda posting ke sini. Karena di UNDIP Mailing List >beranggotakan banyak orang dari aneka Suku, Ras, dan Agama. >Saya yakin Anda pun setuju supaya negara kita segera bangkit dari >keterpurukan sekarang ini. Tidak ada salahnya, kan, kalo kita mulai dari >diri kita sendiri dengan tidak menghembuskan angin perpecahan terhadap apa >yang menjadi angan-angan kita bersama. >Tidakkah kita ingin supaya hidup kita (anak atau cucu kita) tidak seperti >kehidupan kita sekarang ini. Selalu ada perpecahan, persengketaan, iri, >dengki, dan terakhir mungkin kehancuran. >Well, saya tidak menggurui Anda sama sekali, karena saya juga minim >pengalaman hidup. Tapi paling tidak dalam hati saya masih punya kesadaran >dan keinginan untuk hidup damai bersama Anda dan rekan-rekan lainnya. >Saya harap Anda bisa memakluminya, dan saya minta maaf kalau ada tulisan >yang menyinggung Anda. > >Salam, >BAGUS S. > >---------------------------------------------------------------------- > >From: Eko Raharjo <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] >Subject: [UNDIP] Gereja Melindungi Kriminal (2) >Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2002 11:26:38 -0600 > > >Respon dari pihak Gereja termasuk kalangan umat Kristen >tertentu atas kenyataan bahwa Gereja secara konstan memproduksi >dan melindungi kriminal dapat digambarkan dalam satu kata >yakni DENIAL. Pernyataan dibawah ini merupakan ungkapan >defensif khas dari mereka: Generalisasi!, Gereja dipersekusi! >Well, memang tidak ada gunanya untuk menunggu mereka sadar >dengan sendirinya. Kalaupun seluruh anak-anak Kristen mulai >dari putra altar sampai street children rectumnya sudah pada jebol >semua masih tidak ada jaminan bahwa "orang-orang terpilih" >ini yang mendapat privillege dan kuasa besar untuk mengkontrol >orang-orang miskin dan lemah (termasuk minor) akan mengakui >dan bertangung jawab atas kejahatan mereka! > >Mendiskusikan isu-isu mengenai KEMISKINAN, MASA DEPAN >ANAK-ANAK, KEADILAN dan MORAL adalah omong kosong >tanpa memperkarakan KEJAHATAN dan KEMUNAFIKAN mereka! > >Eko Raharjo > > >Current estimates of Roman Catholic priests in the U.S.= 49,000 to >50,000 > > Estimates of pedophile priests = 3,000 (6.1%) to 8,000 (16.3%) > > 188 Dioceses in the U.S. Divide 3,000 by 188 = 16 perpetrators >per diocese > Divide 8,000 by 188 = 42 perpetrators per diocese > > Current experts claim a pedophile could abuse 200-265 children in > >a lifetime. > 200 x 16 perps/diocese = 3,200 victims/diocese > 200 x 42 perps/diocese = 8,400 victims/diocese > 3,200 victims/diocese x 188 dioceses = 601,600 victims in U.S. > 8,400 victims/diocese x 188 dioceses = 1,579,200 victims in U.S. > > Average American family consists of 4-6 people > (3,200 victims/diocese) 601,600 victims x 4 family members = >2,406,400 indirect victims > 60l,000 victims x 6 family members = 3,609,600 indirect victims > (8,400 victims/diocese) 1,579,200 x 4 family members = 6,316,800 >indirect victims > 1,579,200 x 6 family members = 9,475,200 indirect victims > > These numbers are a reflection of immediate family only and do >not reflect the indirect victims within the parishes that are affected. > > 188 Bishops are responsible for the pain of at least 601,600 >direct victims and as many as 9,475,200 indirect victims � a total of as > > many as 10,076,800 people. Clearly, something is wrong. > > >Additional information: > > Using the higher estimates of pedophile priests (8,000) and >numbers of victims (265), the results are even more astonishing � giving > >a > possible maximum of 2,092,440 direct victims and as many as >12,554,640 indirect victims for a total of 14,647,080. For comparative > purposes, using the lower numbers the number of direct victims >and survivors alone could populate a city larger than Boston. Using the > higher numbers, it would be the fourth largest city in the U.S.� >one between the size of Houston and Chicago. > > Four in 10 US Catholic nuns report having experienced >sexual abuse, (a rate equivalent to that reported by American women > in general), a study by Catholic researchers supported by >major religious orders, has found. The study found that sisters > have known sexual abuse less in childhood, dispelling what > >the authors call an "anti-Catholic" canard that girls fled to > convents to escape sexual advances. During religious life, > >close to 30% of the nation's 85,000 nuns experienced "sexual > trauma," ranging from rape to exploitation to harassment. >A total of 40% reported a least one experience of that kind. > NCR, 1/15/99 > The Wisconsin Psychological Association's survey found >offenders distributed among the following professions: Psychiatrists >34%, > Psychologists 19%, Social Workers 13%, Clergy 11%, >Physicians 6%, Marriage Counselors 4%, and Others 14%. > The Center for Domestic Violence found that 12.6% of >clergy said they had sex with church members. 47% of clergy women > were harassed by clergy colleagues. > The Presbyterian Church stated that 10-23% of clergy have >"inappropriate sexual behavior or contact" with clergy and employees. > The United Methodist research (1990) showed 38.6% of >Ministers had sexual contact with church members and that 77% of > church workers experienced some type of sexual harassment. > > The United Church of Christ found that 48% of the women in > >the work place have been sexually harassed by male clergy. > The Southern Baptists claim 14.1% of their clergy have >sexually abused members. > > In the Roman Catholic Church there are over 800 priests that have > >been removed from ministry as a result of allegations against them. We > also know of 1,400 insurance claims on the books and that the >Church has paid out over $1 billion in liability with an estimated $500 > million pending. One noted expert claims that there are over >5,000 priests with some type of allegation against them. If this is >true, then > there are at least 1,000,000 direct victims of clergy sexual >abuse and between 4-6 million indirect victims in the U.S. > > Our institutional churches, who have proclaimed themselves to be >the moral backbone of society, have failed all of us. We need to >continue to > bring them to moral and civil accountability. I think we might >want to pray for them as well. > > > > > > >-------------------------- >Milis Archive: http://messages.to/archives or http://messages.to/archives2 >to unsubscribe, mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] - Seq. 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