Completely agree with the concerns about the potential clientele and appearance of the new store. That is going to depend on what sort of store it is, and I guess that remains to be seen. And precisely because of the way PA liquor laws are set up, beer distributors are less encouraging of public drunkenness than liquor stores -- at least, I have yet to see someone pick up a case at the beer distributor and crack open a bottle outside. So insofar as the concerns regarding the mosque and the school are related to the possibility that the liquor store would attract an undesirable element that would be unwelcome in close proximity to a school or a religious establishment, I understand where they're coming from.
My objection is with the majority of the arguments made against the store in the article, namely that the liquor store is objectionable because the mosque community objects to the consumption of alcohol, and the widespread sale of alcohol in our society, *in general*. I have no problem whatsoever with a group holding those views, but I have reservations about allowing those views to determine where and when otherwise publicly acceptable services are provided. Balancing the concerns and views of a minority (in the strict sense of <50% of the population) against the views of the majority is clearly difficult, but I feel this goes too far. Mike S On Fri, 23 Feb 2007 11:17:26 -0500, "Kyle Cassidy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said: > I think _everybody_ probably has concerns about the idea of a liquor > store opening up across from their house. Especially if you've been to > the one on Market street -- it's archetecturally hideous and is besotted > with panhandlers, you need to run a spanging gauntlet both on the way in > and the way out -- the very steriotype of a seedy, urban liquor store. > Nobody wants their kids walking home from school through a stream of > winos. but i do think that it's likely if some of our good neighbors are > walking from their homes to this place and back that the extra foot > traffic will be good rather than bad, that you people (and our entitled > penn kids streaming up and back from 40th) will prevent rather than cause > crime as will the swarm of bike cops and safety ambassadors who will no > doubt flit about them. > > we hope that the new location, the "community leaders" (whomever they > are) expressed desire for an "upscale" wine and spirits shoppe, and good > neighbors at the restaurant school, the mosque, and the supermarket will > be vigilant in applying pressure on both the store management and the > penn police to enforce loitering laws, sweep the parking lot, and be good > neighbors themselves. after all, if it's merely a transplant of the > market street store, i'm still going to center city to buy my Veuve > Cliquot. The beer distributor, despite its ugly exterior, has been very > good at discouraging loitering and has been, in my experience, a good > neighbor. > > I hope that the zoning board and the mosque can come to an agreement > that's beneficial to everyone, perhaps through some use of parking > facilities at certain times. > > As for concerns that it is too close to the school, we must be sure to > let it be known during the zoning board meeting that patrons of the > liquor store MUST be _carded_ in accordance with the law and that k-8 > students NOT be served. in that, i thnk, we are united. > > kc > > -----Original Message----- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] on behalf of Mike > Sent: Fri 2/23/2007 10:27 AM > To: UC List > Subject: Re: [UC] More about the liquor store/mosque > > I find some of these arguments misguided at best and disingenuous at > worst. > > On Fri, 23 Feb 2007 08:10:18 EST, [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: > > For those who think I was making up the opposition being voiced by the > > people at the mosque -- this, now, as a follow-up in today's DP. > > > > A voice of rationality in a world of hyperbole ® Al Krigman > > > > ---------------- > > > > > > Potential move brings potential conflict Possible move of liquor store > > to 43rd, Walnut brings protest from local mosque Madeleine Kronovet > > > > For students living on Beige Block, the potential move of the liquor > > store closer to the area may be a godsend. > > > > But to Ahmed Rushdie, the news is nothing less than "insulting." > > > > Officials familiar with the negotiations say that there are talks to > > move the 41st and Market streets liquor store to 43rd and Walnut > > streets, a location close in proximity to a K-8 school and a > > community mosque. > > > > The Masjid Al-Jamia Mosque is located at 4228 Walnut St., while the > > Penn-Alexander school is at 4209 Spruce St. > > > > Rushdie, a professor in Penn's Near Eastern Language and > > Civilizations Department and a board member of Masjid Al-Jamia, says > > the move raises serious issues for Muslims in the area - under > > Islamic law, it is illegal for Muslims to consume alcohol. > > And what, they're unable to control those alcohol-consuming impulses? > What about the beer distributor across the street? Or are the impulses > to consume wine and hard liquor harder to control than those to consume > beer? This objection really doesn't hold water as far as I can see. > > > Rushdie's concerns go further than religious convictions, however: He > > said Masjid Al-Jamia is most concerned about the possible negative > > side effects that a liquor store might have for the area. > > > > "Most importantly, it's really bad for the neighborhood because there > > are many families, and [it would be] less than 300 feet from the > > school on 42nd" Street, he said. "We're not disputing the relocation > > of this store because it's a religious matter only." > > Again, the beer distributor is right there, so the fact that alcohol is > available isn't going to change. If it's the down-and-out clientele that > they're worried about, assuming the liquor store that goes in is a > higher-end store as has previously been suggested, the crowd attracted > by the liquor store has just as much chance of being a clientele that is > good for the neighborhood. Granted, if they just transplanted the 41st > and Market store (or worse yet, the 49th and Baltimore store) as is, I > could see the concern. > > > Although the Pennsylvania Liquor Control Board has denied that there > > are present plans to move the store, Spruce Hill Community > > Association officials and the building's developer have both confirmed > > that a zoning-board meeting > > - in which community members will be allowed to voice their concerns > > - will be held Feb. 28 to discuss the move. > > > > "I'm sure the mosque will be there, make their case [and] be heard," > > said Barry Grossbach, chairman of the Spruce Hill Zoning Committee. > > All parties "have the right to speak, and then the zoning committee > > decides." > > > > If the PLCB were to move locations, they would need to obtain a > > permit approved by the Zoning Board of Adjustment. > > > > And the Muslim community hopes that, at the meeting, its voice will > > be heard. > > > > "If this is the motivation of the establishment or to further fuel > > the pockets of the government through liquor tax, I'm unsure," said > > area resident Asalamu Alaikum, a member of Masjid Al-Jamia. "However, > > we all agree that we don't want to see our community fall victim to > > these types of establishments, as others have done all too often." > > What are "these types of establishments"? Places that sell alcohol? > Welcome to America. Those are all around, and unless they're saying that > the mosque members can resist the temptations of alcohol as long as it's > not right across the street, I don't see how this store would change the > fact that alcohol is an ever-present temptation in our society. Whether > or now their community "falls victim" to wine stores has nothing to do > with the wine stores and everything to do with the community. > > > College junior Artina Sheikh, vice president of the Penn Muslim > > Student Association, also spoke out against the possible relocation. > > > > "The MSA is extremely concerned over this issue and objects to this > > establishment because of the moral implications of permitting wider > > distribution of alcohol to society at large," she said. > > The decision to permit wide distribution to alcohol to society at large > was taken a long time ago, after something called Prohibition didn't > work. This store has nothing to do with that -- it's merely moving one > of the distribution points. Another argument I find difficult to fathom > coming from an intelligent member of society. > > > But Grossbach said he hopes that an amiable conclusion can eventually > > be reached. > > > > "Everyone is looking to find some solution ? that is acceptable > > across the board," he said. > > > > > > <BR><BR><BR>**************************************<BR> AOL now offers > > free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at > > http://www.aol.com. > > ---- > You are receiving this because you are subscribed to the > list named "UnivCity." To unsubscribe or for archive information, see > <http://www.purple.com/list.html>. > ---- You are receiving this because you are subscribed to the list named "UnivCity." To unsubscribe or for archive information, see <http://www.purple.com/list.html>.
