On 2018-08-13 18:13, Mark Wieder via use-livecode wrote:
Nope. Not wanting to get into licensing wars here (the 'silly
licensing' thing was not meant to be a poke at LC), but the stacks I
sell have an initial low purchase price but no 'license' involved. A
registration code is required to download (always free) updates as
they appear, but there's no license check and no subscription and no
locked code.
I've no intention of starting a licensing war and I'm not, but I think I
do have to make an important point so as to not mislead others who are
also looking to sell the software they produce (of which there are
probably a fair few on this list - since this is a development tool
mailing list!).
The problem is that I have no idea what you mean by 'no license'. Do you
mean:
(1) No-one is allowed to use it - you've not specified any terms of
conveyance or use - so does that mean there are none?
(2) You mean that it is public domain (which is the closest thing to
'no license' I believe) - you are just charging me $40 per tool as the
download fee for the 'full' version.
(3) You are relying on various laws and such which the purchaser is
assumed to understand in order to know what they are allowed to do with
what they have paid for?
If (1) is the case - then the tools very existence seems to be a kind of
a pointless exercise.
If (2) is the case, then great - they both might make a useful addition
to the non-GPL editions of LiveCode (as there is 'no license' they are
not compatible with the GPL) - I'll pay $80, put them in the non-GPL
editions and ensure everyone who uses those editions has complete and
free access to them ;o).
If (3) is the case, then, err - that's way too non-specific for me - I
think I'll just take a pass.
[ By the way, I should point out (although I'd hope this would be
obvious!) that I won't *actually* be doing (2) - the lack of any
specific details of the terms under which you are conveying your
software means it is way to risky for me to even think about using your
tools in any manner whatsoever! Also, I have far too much respect for
anyone who is willing to release and support software regardless of
whether they may or may not be somewhat light on the legalese side of
things - so I ain't gonna go stealing anything! ]
My point here is, simply, this - software licenses might well be verbose
at times, annoying and you may well think that they are just standing in
our way to do what we want to do. However, they are not, they absolutely
are not. They are very important - they tell anyone who receives the
software work you have created what their rights, responsibilities and
redress (as a receiver of them) is with regard the use of what you have
granted them access to.
They don't have to be complex, nor full of legalese. However anybody who
is vending software and failing to take the time and effort to set out
in clear language what terms they intend their software to be used under
either if bought, or just downloaded is doing both themselves a
disservice, as well as their potential users.
Also, I should also point out that Python does come with a software
license. Indeed the PSF felt it necessary to create their own
GPL-compatible one. Interestingly there is one clause in it which
certainly makes it stronger than MIT:
3. In the event Licensee prepares a derivative work that is based on or
incorporates Python 3.7.0 or any part thereof, and wants to make the
derivative work available to others as provided herein, then Licensee
hereby
agrees to include in any such work a brief summary of the changes
made to Python
3.7.0.
Indeed, parts of the python source base are actually covered by a litany
of other licenses too (just as LiveCode's is GPL + a number of others)
as is more than usual in large open-source projects.
So, anyway, Mark Wieder is free to continue to do as he sees fit -
however, I'd strongly recommend anyone else thinking about selling or
distributing software is not quite so laissez-faire with the (what can
be extremely simple) legal side. You may not agree with software
licensing or may think you are above, on top, aside or nowhere related
to it; but if you wish to interact with others in the modern world of
software, and particularly with those who are have to do due-diligence
on such matters, you'd be wise to not ignore it and claim 'no license'.
And as you well know, I give away lots of foss and public domain code.
:P yourself <g>
What do you know - so do we (on a far greater scale, I'd perhaps
venture) :oP
Warmest Regards,
Mark.
--
Mark Waddingham ~ [email protected] ~ http://www.livecode.com/
LiveCode: Everyone can create apps
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