Sorry Nicolas,
I agree with BJ, I have used both Neogia and OFBiz in many projects and I far
prefer the OFBiz way.
One point I did not like in Neogia (maybe it has changed since I always used a version based on R4.0) is the time it takes to
compile, much longer than OFBiz.
Even if I avoid to use Java as most as possible (thanks to Widgets/Groovy and minlilang), depending on projects you have sometimes
to compile more...
Also when you look for strings you get more redundancy because some things are
"duplicated" in Neogia part.
But I'm maybe missing things like autocomplete? Not sure it's worth the other
costs, though...
Jacques
From: "BJ Freeman" <bjf...@free-man.net>
there must be an mis understanding.
I don't think ofbiz should change just so others people can have it
easier, at the expense of the ofbiz design.
btw I have been using ofbiz about as long as you.
I started with java OO and found that I was touching to many points in code.
Ofbiz design provided a lot less touch points to accomplish the same
thing. thus has a faster to market design time and less maintainence, IMHO.
======================
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http://bjfreeman.elance.com
Strategic Power Office with Supplier Automation
<http://www.businessesnetwork.com/automation/viewforum.php?f=93>
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Nicolas Malin sent the following on 3/11/2010 12:34 PM:
-1
BJ, Ruth,
Saying that OFBiz should move in the same way that other projects is a
bit stupid, and show that you've not fully understand OFBiz and the
entity engine.
It is now 7 years I'm working on OFBiz, and I have made the same error
at the beginning as others, I did'nt understood at the moment the beauty
of the entityengine.
Looking back at my hard start, I'm glad having done this error, and now
more than mastering the entity engine, and all its abilities in tems of
connections, abstractions, and more.
The only fault I found was on huge customers projects where there were
big business needs.
At LibrenBerry and Nereide, we've then added generators to fill the gap,
and this remove nothing from the entity-engine capabilities, but add
more smoothness in its use. The combination form/screen/minilang is as
strong as before and more stronger. For big business needs, where java
is needed, the generated code is more reliable (who never has made on
error on Strings ?). for an example, you can take a look to neogia
accounting code, to see how entity-engine and code generation
combination is valuable.
From our side, it is sure that helping development by generation is not
revolutionizing OFBiz, and should not do it, noone told to replace
entity-engine with hibernate.
Generation is adding a bigger flexibility and a more reliable product.
From my point of view, OFBiz is more than just an ERP. It is also a
strong base for any project, from the small ones to the big ones. Adding
MDA tools in its data model can only be a good thing.
Cheers,
Nicolas
Ruth Hoffman a écrit :
+1
Thank you BJ.
Ruth
----------------------------------------------------
Find me on the web at http://www.myofbiz.com or Google keyword "myofbiz"
ruth.hoff...@myofbiz.com
BJ Freeman wrote:
Let me ask this, if all these other approaches are better why is there
not a application like ofbiz done in them, without using ofbiz at all?
I keep getting the feeling that those that want major changes don't
really understand the design goals of ofbiz.
=======================
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http://bjfreeman.elance.com
Strategic Power Office with Supplier Automation
<http://www.businessesnetwork.com/automation/viewforum.php?f=93>
Specialtymarket.com <http://www.specialtymarket.com/>
Systems Integrator-- Glad to Assist
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huang.mi...@gmail.com sent the following on 3/11/2010 8:50 AM:
While reading the sentence "There are many people out there who don't
understand the Entity Engine", I felt a problem implied in it: There
are
absolutely much more people "out there", and I'm sure the OFBIZ project
want to attract them in. Why they keep on asking "Hibernate", "Spring",
etc, though? Are they all wrong?
In my opinion, the OFBIZ framework DID do a right thing - to provide
developers an integrated framework. What I mean is in OFBIZ, the
developer can define entity in one place and share the entity
definition
across different tiers, form persistence to presentation. This kind of
integration saved developers a lot from typings and preserved
consistency across different application tiers. But, this is not what
Entity Engine itself can provide. All gains come from the integration.
If we simply separate the OFBIZ entity engine into a stand alone ORM
like tool, I bet its not very attractive and only people familiar with
OFBIZ already will use it.
On the other hand, if there are another framework such as Grails that
can provide at least same level of cross tier integration ability,
while
leverage the sophisticated and WELL KNOWN technologies (such as
Hibernate/JPA for ORM, Spring for service tier component composition,
Spring MVC for view tier framework). Sounds a little bit attractive
than
"home made" every thing, isn't it?
Regards,
Miles.
On Thu, 2010-03-11 at 10:23 -0500, Ruth Hoffman wrote:
Hi David:
Nothing! I think this is an amazing piece of work. IMO, there are
many people out there who don't understand the Entity Engine value
proposition. That is why they keep asking for "Hibernate" etc.
Here's some things I'd consider as additions:
* Maybe making a separate component/webapp to manage the Entity
Engine. Take it out of WebTools.
* Include in that webapp any security/role management specific to
the Entity Engine.
* Entity Engine performance tools (or more information on how
to use
existing tools).
* Better backup tools (or more information on how to use existing
tools).
More to come...
Ruth
----------------------------------------------------
Find me on the web at http://www.myofbiz.com or Google keyword
"myofbiz"
ruth.hoff...@myofbiz.com
David E Jones wrote:
If you could change anything about the data tier in OFBiz
(basically the Entity Engine), what would you change?
All comments are welcome. If there is another tool you'd like to
see used instead of the Entity Engine, please describe what you
like about it (like "I want to have an Java class for each table
in my database") instead of just mentioning the tool (like "let's
use Hibernate!").
Why am I asking? This topic comes up every once in a while, and
it's true that many suggestions never get enough support to
actually happen (or on further research it is decided that the
idea is not tenable), but brainstorming about them to get ideas in
the open is still a great thing. The history of OFBiz is full of
things like this where users and more casual contributors had
ideas and saw possibilities that others, even more involved
contributors, totally missed or never looked at that way. What I
think would be fun, and ultimately useful too, is to keep this
mostly to brainstorming and not do too much comparing of ideas.
BTW, if you want to brainstorm about another tier (ie the Logic or
UI tiers) please use the other threads on those. If you'd like to
discuss things that aren't specific to a tier look for the
"General" thread.
-David
