Hi BJ, It is an interesting idea ! You actually propose to use OfBiz as the core platform for the AAL, and not only as an e-commerce solution. We will consider it as an option. However, I would say that it seems that it could be an overkill to use an ERP solution as a general platform for applications and devices. This option could be too heavy, in terms of unneeded code/unneeded business features/high learning curve etc.. The idea is definitely interesting, though.
Best Regards, Vadim ------------------------------- Vadim Eisenberg IT for Healthcare & Life Sciences IBM Research - Haifa BJ Freeman <bjf...@free-man.net> wrote on 04/09/2010 04:37:21 PM: > From: > > BJ Freeman <bjf...@free-man.net> > > To: > > user@ofbiz.apache.org > > Date: > > 04/09/2010 04:38 PM > > Subject: > > Re: OfBiz e-commerce customization > > one of the concepts that is hard for most web developers is ofbiz > Ecommerce is like a third Tier Application. > Ecommerce depends on all the other Back-end applications and the framework. > So you don't design a page then add the data in the db to support it. > Also you will find the Ecommerce in the Second Volume starting about > page 393. > You can also look at the data model for Health care in Vol II. > There is a section about Health Care Delivery. mind you this is only > data modeling and the actual business logic and UI has to be developed. > > My back ground is hardware automation as well as embedded applications. > in the 70's I designed a home that was automated, it used compressed air > and cylinders for activation of doors and ramps. At that time proximity > sensors were all that was available. > > I say this because of your focus. > Being nearly 70 I have worked towards a computer companion, as such, > using AI. its purpose was to be my guide when I got too forgetful. > > so here is something you may not have considered. Ofbiz as the Home > automation with in the home. > Ofbiz has a sync capability used in the POS that could be used to sync > the ofbiz running in the home with the main website. > This way each person would have their own personalize themes for their home. > this would be an embedded Linux server with touch screen. it is all > enclosed. > you would use the network that automatically connects to other network > nodes and builds an Intranet in the home. this allows for other systems > to interact with ofbiz. > > The Framework of ofbiz has the ability to run schedule services. the > scripts for the services can be modified without re-compiling or > restarting ofbiz, though the actual service defs do require a restart if > changed or added. this is being worked on so the home system can be > updated on the fly. > > There is also a Setup component that can be added to for new components. > > needless to say I very sold on ofbiz and what it can do. > it does though, as David said have places that need to fleshed out. > > ========================= > > BJ Freeman > Strategic Power Office with Supplier Automation <http:// > www.businessesnetwork.com/automation/viewforum.php?f=52> > Specialtymarket.com <http://www.specialtymarket.com/> > Systems Integrator-- Glad to Assist > > Chat Y! messenger: bjfr33man > > Vadim Eisenberg sent the following on 9/4/2010 1:02 AM: > > > Hi David, > > > > Thank you for your answer and explanations. I failed with the formatting > > for the second time, so I will try to write in plain text from now on. > > > > You wrote: "when asking questions here please keep in mind that responses > > you get are volunteer responses and the only qualification you can be sure > > of for those responding > > is that they are capable of subscribing to the mailing list. If many > > people respond with something > > consistent then it is a safer bet that you can rely on the information, > > but usually not otherwise." > > > > I guess this is how Open Source works :) ? by volunteers contributing code > > to the product and answering questions in the mailing lists. I still would > > like to hear as much opinions as possible from the developers "in the > > trenches", so anybody is welcome to provide them. I would like to thank BJ > > again for providing his opinions. > > > > Please note that the project I participate in, is a kind of Research and > > Development project, sponsored by EU and implemented by a consortium of > > academic and industrial partners. The project is planned for four years > > (ending in January 2014). One of its goals is to create an open source > > implementation of an e-commerce solution - uStore, suited for the field of > > AAL - Ambient Assisted Living (that is a kind of "smart home" for senior > > citizens). The main concept of uStore is similar to the concept of > > AppStore of Apple ? the AAL application developers would be able to upload > > and sell their applications from the store. In addition to that, AAL > > related devices and human services would be sold. An additional important > > feature is to integrate "social commerce" ? user reviews, blogs, forums > > etc. > > > > Please note that developing uStore is Research and Development and there > > are not yet concrete AAL businesses that would immediately use it. The > > goal is to provide some reference open source implementation in four > > years. This implementation would be later supported and extended by an > > open-source community according to the business needs of AAL businesses, > > once some real AAL businesses would use it. One of the goals is to reuse > > the existing open-source OOTB solutions in any field as much as possible > > in order to save resources as much as possible. > > > > As a result of the situation, the accent here is more on e-commerce > > features of existing e-commerce solutions, especially related to the > > e-commerce frontend, than on their ERP features. We would like to use the > > simplest and the most straightforward standard business model (preferably > > OOTB) for e-commerce and invest more resources into the frontend features. > > By the frontend features I mean the website, its accessibility, including > > presentation on smart phones, search, recommendations, user reviews, blogs > > and forums etc. As I understand the strength of OfBiz is actually its rich > > ERP data model, however here we probably do not need the advanced ERP > > features of OfBiz. > > > > I have read your HEMP Light document ? it was interesting and provided > > some insights for me. Currently we are in process of finalizing the use > > cases/requirements of the uStore and evaluating existing e-commerce > > solutions, with OfBiz being one of the main candidates. > > > > Thanks& Regards, > > Vadim > > > > ------------------------------- > > Vadim Eisenberg > > IT for Healthcare& Life Sciences > > IBM Research - Haifa > > > > > > David E Jones<d...@me.com> wrote on 03/09/2010 10:00:38 PM: > > > >> From: > >> > >> David E Jones<d...@me.com> > >> > >> To: > >> > >> user@ofbiz.apache.org > >> > >> Date: > >> > >> 03/09/2010 10:01 PM > >> > >> Subject: > >> > >> Re: OfBiz e-commerce customization > >> > >> > >> Vadim, > >> > >> About your formatting: this mailing list filters out all HTML > >> because HTML email messages tend to be VERY large and the Apache > >> Software Foundation in general has many thousands of messages going > >> through mailing lists every day. > >> > >> Back to your original question: when asking questions here please > >> keep in mind that responses you get are volunteer responses and the > >> only qualification you can be sure of for those responding is that > >> they are capable of subscribing to the mailing list. If many people > >> respond with something consistent then it is a safer bet that you > >> can rely on the information, but usually not otherwise. With a > >> question as long and involved as yours chances are you'll only get a > >> small number of responses, and chances are your experience will be > >> VERY different from those few who do respond. > >> > >> OFBiz is a large project. A good developer can learn to work > >> effectively with the framework with a couple of weeks of training > >> and a couple of months of hands-on development. However, even a good > >> developer will have a hard time picking up all of the data > >> structures and business logic even after many months of study, and > >> realistically since most people don't or can't do that, it usually > >> takes years of work experience and even then they'll only have > >> knowledge of the parts of the system that have had the opportunity > >> to work with. > >> > >> Understanding the business side is much easier for someone who has a > >> good business background, and by good business background I mean > >> really good experience with how businesses actually operate and what > >> sorts of information businesses actually keep track of when > >> operating. Sometimes people coming out of university business > >> programs will have this, but most of the time they do not. Most > >> people with business degrees will have learned more about laws and > >> how to manipulate people than about the myriad of complexities of > >> managing a warehouse, handling purchasing, or tracking information > >> about products to facility the many touch points with those products > >> throughout the company, and making it easy for customers to find > >> products they want, or how to figure out where customer interest > >> intersects with stuff you want to move. > >> > >> So anyway, keep in mind that your diving into a pretty comprehensive > >> ERP system, but one that is made up of what people have seen fit to > >> contribute for free. An extremely wide variety of data structures > >> and common business processes are represented in the system, though > >> many are not complete, or at least not complete in the way your > >> client will want to use them. > >> > >> The only way to really be sure is to document ALL business > >> activities (usually easiest if organized by process and not by role > >> or by system function), and then do an overlap/gap analysis to see > >> how each business activity would be done in the system, or if there > >> is not something to do it (or it is not adequate for what your users > >> want) then detail what the system needs to do to help manage that > >> activity. Once you've done that, then you'll know what the system > >> can do for you as-is, and what needs to be done to expand and change > >> the system to do what your client needs. Short of that, everything > >> is a guess and guaranteed to be wrong (the only question is by how > >> much and in which direction(s)...). > >> > >> To help with that I recommend this material (this is what I use > > withclients): > >> > >> http://www.dejc.com/home/HEMP.html > >> > >> I'd also recommend looking at some of the generic business process > >> stories that have come from OFBiz-based projects and been refined > >> somewhat over the years (though keep in mind that these stories in > >> some places represent activities that are not managed by OOTB OFBiz, > >> ie these need an overlap/gap analysis document to make them more > > meaningful): > >> > >> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OFBREQDES/Universal > >> +Business+Process+Library+Index > >> > >> Best of luck, > >> -David > >> > >> > >> On Sep 3, 2010, at 11:32 AM, Vadim Eisenberg wrote: > >> > >>> Hello BJ and other OfBiz developers, > >>> > >>> I was not subscribed to the mailing list so I did not receive the > > answer > >>> of BJ to my previous message - > >>> http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/ofbiz-user/201009.mbox/% > >> 3c4c7ffc99.9020...@free-man.net%3e > >>> . Because of that I cannot post a response to it. Secondly, I used a > > wrong > >>> MIME in my previous message, so all the bullets and formatting were > >>> missing. I am reposting the original message below in the right format > > > >>> (any additional comments/opinions are welcome). In addition, my > > response > >>> to BJ follows. Sorry for the mess I created. > >>> > >>> Hi BJ, > >>> > >>> Thank you for your prompt response. I think I've got the general idea. > > I > >>> still would like to ask a question about learning OfBiz: > >>> The three volumes of the data model book comprise about 1700 pages > >>> together. Should I use the book as a reference or do I have to read > > all > >>> the three volumes before starting my work on OfBiz ? Which parts of > > the > >>> book are required before I begin my work ? > >>> > >>> Thanks& Regards, > >>> Vadim > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> My original message: > >>> > >> > > > =========================================================================================================== > >>> Hello OfBiz developers, > >>> > >>> My name is Vadim Eisenberg and I work at IBM Research - Haifa, on the > >>> UniversAAL project - http://universaal.org/. It is a consortium > > European > >>> project. Its goal is to create a platform for applications, services > > and > >>> devices for Ambient Assisted Living, that is a kind of "Smart Home" > > for > >>> senior citizens. As part of the platform, we - several software > > developers > >>> - have to develop an e-commerce site - uStore > >>> http://universaal.org/index.php? > >> option=com_content&view=category&layout=blog&id=9&Itemid=21 > >>> . This site would be a one-stop-shop for software, services and > > devices > >>> for Ambient Assisted Living. > >>> > >>> We consider using OfBiz for implementation of uStore. > >>> > >>> I would like to ask you several questions about the features we want > > to > >>> implement. I would be glad to hear any information you can tell me > > about > >>> how hard could it be for us to implement these features. Please note > > that > >>> we have no prior experience with OfBiz. > >>> > >>> Any your thoughts, intuition, experience, advice about OfBiz/business > >>> programming are welcome. > >>> > >>> In particular, the following information would help us very much : > >>> How much work should be done by us in order to implement all the > > features > >>> that follow (Person/Months, Person/Years, for skilled OfBiz > >>> developers/general software engineers). Which part would be to use > >>> existing "extension" mechanisms of OfBiz and which part would be > > actually > >>> changing the OfBiz code ? Here your intuition/experience from related > >>> projects is welcome, we do not need exact numbers, just a ballpark. > >>> How much time the general software developers have to learn about > > OfBiz > >>> and how skilled in OfBiz they should become in order to implement > > these > >>> features > >>> > >>> E-commerce website features: > >>> Using e-commerce site for selling software (such as AppStore of > > iPhone) > >>> and downloadable files in general (video, presentations of courses > > etc.). > >>> Here the issue is to manage links where the bought files could be > >>> downloaded. The idea is to prevent a situation in which buyers would > > buy a > >>> software application, receive a link to it for downloading and share > > the > >>> link afterwards with anybody they want, so anybody would be able to > >>> download the application without paying for it. > >>> Using e-commerce site for selling services (human services and others) > >>> Extending e-commerce site with general widgets, such as calendar, > > clock, > >>> map, a widget for downloading files, etc., and integrating the widgets > > > >>> with the OfBiz > >>> > >>> Integration with other websites/services: > >>> Integrating an e-commerce website with another (non-OfBiz backed) site > > - > >>> adding possibility for sellers to add products to the e-commerce site > > via > >>> the other site, to see customer feedback provided on the e-commerce > > site > >>> via the other site > >>> Integrating an e-commerce website with another (possibly non-OfBiz) > >>> e-commerce website, such as eBay/Amazon. What are the current > >>> possibilities of integration with eBay ? > >>> Integrating an e-commerce website with post/delivery services/sites > >>> > >>> Adding advanced features: > >>> Adding support for signing business contracts between service > > consumers > >>> and service providers, between providers of different services etc. > > via > >>> the e-commerce site > >>> Adding support for applying capability/requirement model, such as > >>> JSR-124, (for example for matching between customer's requirements > > and > >>> capabilities of software, devices and services). The customer or > > software > >>> agent on behalf of the customer could provide his requirements as part > > of > >>> his account information, and the e-commerce solution would match > > between > >>> the products (according to their capabilities) and the requirements of > > the > >>> customers. > >>> Has OfBiz a recommendation engine (providing recommendations to a user > > > >>> based on his activity - searches, purchases, reviews etc.) ? If no, > > how > >>> hard would it be to add it ? > >>> Can the OfBiz-based e-commerce web site be presented by browsers of > > smart > >>> phones ? How hard would it be to enable it ? > >>> Changing search/recommendations of OfBiz to be based on the > > requirements > >>> of the customer > >>> Changing search/recommendations of OfBiz to be based on the > > geolocation of > >>> the customer > >>> Adding support for customization of products/services and changes in > > the > >>> prices according to the customization during the purchase process > >>> Adding support for a composition solution of hardware, software and > > human > >>> services (bundles, kits). A seller could compose a new product by > >>> combining several existing products > >>> Adding support for manual approval of products by site administrators > >>> before submission of the products to the e-commerce site > >>> Adding support for managing versions of the software applications that > > are > >>> sold on the e-commerce website > >>> > >>> Sorry for so many questions and sorry if some of them are out of > > context. > >>> > >>> Best Regards, > >>> Vadim > >>> ------------------------------- > >>> Vadim Eisenberg > >>> IT for Healthcare& Life Sciences > >>> IBM Research - Haifa > >>> > >>> > >> > >
