In adition to my last e-mail I just found out that it still is not working as
expected, even when I use prices excl. taxes. I dived into the code and found
in applications/order/groovyScripts/entry/OrderReadHelper.java the function
that gets the price on line 2401 (public static BigDecimal
getOrderItemSubTotal(GenericValue orderItem, List<GenericValue> adjustments,
boolean forTax, boolean forShipping))
The first line gets the unit price from an order item
(orderItem.getBigDecimal("unitPrice");), which always includes taxes. Now I
believe the real issue is that it should store the price excl. taxes in the
line item as well. But this affects probably a lot of sections of the system.
To test it I tried to divide the unitPrice by 1.21 in that function. This did
return the right price and right total, but the tax exempt was of course still
calculated based on the price of 20 euro excl. taxes (which is 4.20 euros
instead of 3.47 euros).
Anyway, maybe not the right discussion for the user list, but there really is
something wrong here. It doesn't seem to be a configuration error.
Kind regards,
Frank
Op 30-07-18 11:35 heeft Frank Herrman <f.herr...@typify.com> geschreven:
Hi Sharan & others,
I have set it up like this now:
* All product prices are connected to the Dutch tax authority, no tax rate
set. Tax included = Y
* I have created 2 tax authorities for The Netherlands and Belgium,
connected to the same party ('belastingdienst', dutch authority)
* The Dutch tax authority has the tax set up to 21% sales tax for both
countries
* The Belgium customer is set up to have a tax exempt for BE and
'belastingdienst'
When I look in the prices table of the database I see this:
https://ibb.co/kgf8R8 (don't know if images get stripped out, so just
pasted a link)
This is correct for price without tax and the tax amount.
When I create an order within Ofbiz I still get this:
https://ibb.co/h77BeT
Which is incorrect (tax exempt is correct, but the amount of 4.20 and the
final price of 20 is not). It seems the system keeps using the 'price' column
in the database instead of the calculated prices and adds tax to it. Other then
that it seems the tax exempt functionality is working as expected now.
I just created a script that checks all prices if some of them are set to
Tax included = Y. If that is the case it will set it to 'N' and set the price
field to the price excl. VAT. It is not a nice solution, but this makes it
easier to maintain and solves my issues for now.
Kind regards,
Frank
Op 29-07-18 15:57 heeft Sharan Foga <sha...@apache.org> geschreven:
Hi Frank
The options I gave were workarounds for if you needed to get something
up and running quickly. I agree with you that long term we need to solve it
properly.
Analysis Needed
==========
Why doesn't the include tax in price flag work properly for Tax
authority setup?
From my perspective I also see two requirements (so happy to get your
feedback and anyone else's too :-).
Requirement 1:
=========
Using your example as the use case - we need to be able to flag that a
Belgian customer is liable for tax in the Netherlands. Note this applies in the
case where it is B2C because the Belgian customer needs to pay Dutch tax. So
for a Sales Order from a Belgian customer there needs to be line calculated for
Dutch tax using the Dutch tax rate.
I think the nexus flag in the Tax Authority parties tab is supposed to
be used for this but it's not working as such because in OFBiz now the tax
calculation for the Sales Order is based on the customer delivery address.
Requirement 2:
=========
Again using your example as the use case - we need to be able to flag
that a Belgian customer is exempt from being taxed by the Dutch Tax Authority.
Note this applies in the case where it is B2B where the Belgian customer is a
company/business. So for a Sales Order from a Belgian customer there needs to
be a line on the Sales order saying that the order is exempt from Dutch tax and
the amount that has been exempted.
The exempt flag in the Tax Authority parties tab is supposed to be used
for this but it's not working as such because in OFBiz now the tax calculation
for the Sales Order is based on the customer delivery address.
Please feel free to comment or give me any feedback on any of these
points.
Thanks
Sharan
On 2018/07/29 12:51:18, Frank Herrman <f.herr...@typify.com> wrote:
> Hi Sharan,
>
>
>
> Thank you very much for your reply, this really helps me. The
difficulty with entering prices excluding VAT for the store managers is that
you want to have commercial sales prices. You rather sell your product for 9.95
euro's then for 10.13 euro's for example. So if you have to enter prices
excluding VAT you need to keep your calculator with you. That is not very
user-friendly.
>
>
>
> Your second option, defining the tax authority for every product does
sound like a good solution. I might create a script even to set it
automatically if the store managers forget about it. From what you are saying
(and I already was thinking) we don't really need the Belgium tax authority. We
don't pay taxes in Belgium, just in the Netherlands. We should get the exempt
working for the B2B customers on the Dutch authority.
>
>
>
> I will be playing around and let you know what solution worked for
us. I am also willing to provide input for Jira or even in code, just need to
find my way around the standards first ;-). Thanks again.
>
>
>
> Kind regards,
>
>
>
> Frank
>
>
>
> Op 27-07-18 16:18 heeft Sharan Foga <sha...@apache.org> geschreven:
>
>
>
> Hi Frank
>
>
>
> There are a few things to cover here so I’ll answer what I can.
>
>
>
> * Including VAT in Product Prices *
>
>
>
> In general for Sales Orders - the tax setup and flow for OFBiz is
mainly based on the US system where the product pricing does not include sales
tax (or VAT). The Sales Tax (or VAT) is calculated once you have selected where
the order will be shipped to. OFBiz uses the shipping address to define which
Tax Authority to use to calculate the tax.
>
>
>
> That being said there are some ways around it.
>
>
>
> 1. You can setup your product pricing to exclude VAT. This means
that it will be added back into the Sales Order when it is created.
>
>
>
> 2. You can setup your product price inclusive of VAT then add the
tax authority at the product pricing level (so in the Price tab for the actual
Product). Add the Tax Authority, and set the include tax in the price. Don’t
include a rate at this level because (OFBiz will ignore it!). The tax rate is
taken from the main Tax Authority setup.
>
>
>
> What this will do – is that it will assume that the tax is
already included in the product price so at Sales Order entry it will separate
it out. So if you set the product price at 100 Euros and have created the Dutch
Tax Authority using 21% then at Sales Order Review you should get an
adjustment line showing the 17.36 Euros VAT. (Which is 21% VAT on 82.64, and
82.64+17.36 = 100)
>
>
>
> What I found was missing was that it doesn’t add the VAT
adjustment into the VAT Total as part of the Sales Oorder summary. The
adjustment message actually says VAT not added to totals! (So that is a
potential fix that needs to be done).
>
>
>
> 3. We can look for someone to volunteer to do some more analysis
on why the include tax in price flag on the Tax Authorities are not working.
>
>
>
> If you need to get up and running quickly then options 1 and 2
should help.
>
>
>
> * Tax Exemptions *
>
>
>
> This is interesting because OFBiz has some functionaliy that
calculates tax exempt amounts based on the flags set for the customer in the
Tax Authority Parties tab. For Purchase Order it calculates and displays the
exempt tax amounts– but for Sales Order it seems to be a bit different.
>
>
>
> So what is happening with your setup is that you have created a
Dutch Tax Authority and a Belgian Tax Authority, so when you create a Sales
Order, OFBiz is looking at the delivery address and then using the Tax
Authority linked to the delivery location to calculate the taxes. (I think
Belgium has 21% VAT too!). This means that if you have a Belgium customer,
OFBiz ignores the Dutch Tax Authority and is using the Belgian one on your
order.
>
>
>
> The quickest way to stop VAT being calculated on the Belgian
customer order is to remove the Product Rate from the Belgian Tax Authority and
setup the Product Pricing to not include VAT.
>
> OFBiz will then simply use the Product Price and if it is already
exclusive of VAT, it will be fine. (If it is inclusive of VAT then you will
have to do a customisation to adjust it).
>
>
>
> I've included some responses to your questions below:
>
>
>
> On 2018/07/24 08:38:48, Frank Herrman <f.herr...@typify.com>
wrote:
>
> > Hello there,
>
> >
>
> > Currently I am trying to find a way to implement tax
exemptions. I have found multiple discussions about this issue which is common
in Europe. We want to sell from The Netherlands to Belgium. When we sell to
other businesses there we do not have to charge the VAT (21%). This post
brought me close:
>
> >
>
> >
http://ofbiz.135035.n4.nabble.com/German-store-with-vat-selling-to-europe-and-other-countries-without-Vat-tp4642750p4642752.html
(especially the part after ‘secondly’), but it is still not working. While
typing this e-mail I reproduced all my steps and even got a bit further ahead.
>
> >
>
> > The things I did so far:
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > * I created two parties, the Dutch and Belgium tax
authorities. I went to accounting->tax authorities to make them tax authorities
within Ofbiz for the two beforementioned countries. I have set ‘require tax id
for exemption’ to ‘N’ for testing purposes (want to make sure this is not the
issue).
>
> > * In the product rates tab for the Dutch authority
(/accounting/control/EditTaxAuthorityRateProducts?taxAuthPartyId=BELASTINGDIENST&taxAuthGeoId=NED)
I have added Value Added Taxes of 21% for each of my stores.
>
> > * In the Parties tab (still of the Dutch tax authority) I
connected the Belgium Party with ‘Is exempt’ set to ‘Y’.
>
> >
>
> > Still no luck, it keeps charging 21% VAT when I create an order
within Ofbiz.
>
> >
>
> > Then I tried to connect the party to the Belgium tax authority
and set ‘is exempt’ to ‘y’ as well. Now when I placed an order I got a really
nice overview:
>
> > Adjustment: Sales Tax Jurisdiction: Belgium [BEL] Rate: 21%
Customer Tax ID: FODFINANCIEN Exempt Amount: 4.2
>
> >
>
> > The grand total was still the original amount including VAT (20
euro’s in this case). It should have charged 16,53 euro while the exempt is
3,47 euro. So it seems to ignore the fact that the price includes VAT already.
That seems to be the bigger issue.
>
> >
>
> > So some things I don’t get:
>
> >
>
> > * How come that it does something different when I connect
the party to the Belgium tax authority (exempt=y) then to the Dutch authority
(exempt=y)?
>
>
>
> I think the Parties tab is used for linking customers to tax
authorities. I don’t think it is for linking tax authorities to other tax
authorities which is why you might be getting weird output. The associations
tab is for linking tax authorities to tax authorities.
>
>
>
> > * In the product pricing I can set the tax authority, tax
rate and if prices include VAT (set to Y of course). Do I need to set that if I
set the VAT percentage in the Tax Authority? I tried adding and removing it,
didn’t make any difference.
>
>
>
> To me this should have been an override setting but it isn't
working as such. In fact the tax rate is completely ignored and will always be
taken from the main Tax Authority Setup.
>
>
>
> If you do add the Tax Authority here, it should make a difference
in on the Final Sales Order Review screen.
>
>
>
>
>
> > * How can I make sure prices are including taxes? I checked
the store settings, but couldn’t find anything usefull there. The stores are
connected to the Dutch tax authority. ‘Show prices with VAT tax included’ is
set to ‘N’ but does not make any difference (seems to influence webshop only,
but I’m not using Ofbiz for that).
>
>
>
> For the pricing, I’ve mentioned some options above. I think the
store settings are mainly for the webshop. However if you do set the 'Show
prices with VAT tax included to ‘Y’, in Sales Order entry screens the product
pricing will be adjusted.
>
>
>
> Remember I mentioned that the taxes are calculated on the
customer delivery address so the reason the Tax Authority details are needed
for the Store is that it means the tax can be calculated before any delivery
address has been selected.
>
>
>
> The only thing I’m not sure about is ‘Prorate Taxes’, I don’t
know what it means since English is not my native language. Changing it did not
make any difference though.
>
>
>
> My understanding of Prorate Taxes is like pro rata and means that
if there is an adjustment to the prices (e.g a discount) then calculate the tax
is based on the discounted amount rather than the original amount. (If anyone
has any other understanding then please feel to respond)
>
>
>
>
>
> > * The difference between sales taxes and VAT within Ofbiz.
Somehow it is now showing my VAT tax rules as ‘sales tax’ where it was VAT
before. I like sales tax better since it is also showing in the grand total (as
it should), but still I’m not sure why it switched from VAT to Salex tax when I
was messing around with the tax authorities.
>
>
>
>
>
> They are pretty much both the same thing just different names.
:-) As OFBiz became more popular in places that use VAT rather than Sales Tax,
I think it was added.
>
>
>
> My thought is that it would be good to look at and tidy up the
VAT functionality especially if there are some things that are not working as
expected. I’ll check JIRA to see if there are any outstanding issues logged
that are linked to what I’ve mentioned here. Also real use cases are good so
if you can help contribute then that also can help others understand the
problem and provide solutions.
>
>
>
> Sorry for the long post and hope this helps.
>
>
>
> Thanks
>
> Sharan
>
>
>
> >
>
> > Thank you for reading this far and hopefully someone can shed
some light on the pricing/VAT system. It seems really powerfull, but I’m a bit
lost.
>
> >
>
> > Best regards,
>
> >
>
> > Frank
>
> >
>
> >
>
>
>
>
>
