Jack, I think folks on this list have heard enough complaining and
whinning by you and others. You claim that your right of free speech is
being violated, but all I have heard from you is insults. This is a list
for professional developers, not gangsters!
Also, how are contributing by claiming that Struts has not lived up to
your expectations? If anything, you should be contributing to make it
better. All said and done, I have now used Struts for over a year and I
must say that the creators did a great job! It's a very powerful framework
and the folks you labored ardously to design and implement it deserve,
at the very least, a thank you from all of us.
- Asad
On Sat, 25 Mar 2006, Dakota Jack wrote:
I don't know about you, but my email comes organized so that I can easily
work around anything that happens on a list. I would think that this is
fairly normal and something we could expect? I can remember when the dev
list would say "Heh, take that stuff to the user list". But, if things go
to the dev list I am "down with that". I really think that this is an
important topic. A lot of talent is not going to get hooked into Struts, as
it has not in the past, if we continue that way things are. I am
interested, by the way, in everyone's input.
On 3/25/06, Paul Benedict <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Dakota,
Thanks for wanting my input :-) I am not looking for censorship,
but I am looking for productive discussions and sometimes that means
pruning one discussion for the sake of another. I tend to agree that
this thread should move onto the dev board; it seems to be the appropraite
place, in my eyes, for discussion on project management, patches, and
the future vision of Struts. I don't think it is a difficult thing
to transpose these discussions there, so, if probably will hold off on
this
thread until it moves over. I just don't want to penalize true user
questions here, since some people need real development help, and I think
having a ton of philosophical inbound mail detracts from it.
Paul
--- Dakota Jack <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Well, I for one would be interested in what you have to say, Paul. I
think
it is too bad that you feel you cannot answer on this list. That is as
close to a tragedy as it gets. I cannot believe how censorship works on
this list. What a sad thing. I want to get peoples' ideas on this. I
cannot get them if this list is afraid to talk because Craig comes on
and
says "shut up". Nothing could be more relevant to this community than
why
it failed. To suggest otherwise is either disingenuous or facist or
both.
On 3/25/06, Paul Benedict <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Johnathan,
I am going to eat my own advice. I am going to respond
to this privately :) Expect an email soon.
Paul
--- Jonathan Revusky <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Paul Benedict wrote:
+1 with Frank and Craig. Unless you need to have your viewpoint
continuously heard in public, some of the latter postings can be
shared privately. Most of it was good, and I think it generated
much good; thanks for sharing.
Well, my problem on this right now is that I just don't have
closure.
I asked the basic question of why Struts development stagnated and
people who really should have by now really grappled with this
question
and considered it, simply disengaged, and some even started with the
insults and such.
I don't really like putting you on the spot, Paul (with other
people, I
don't mind so much but you seem like a basically okay guy) but I'm
just
going to ask you the same question I asked a whole bunch of other
people
and never got any answer from.
What, in your opinion, are the reasons that Struts development
stagnated?
I know I'm being a hard-nosed SOB but I also know that the question
is
well-formulated, valid, and broadly on-topic for a Struts list.
I'm sure you have an opinion on this subject, Paul. If you won't
share
your views, I'd be curious as to why. You see, I'm developing the
impression that the above question is basically taboo somehow.
Once you pose this question, people just start coming out of the
woodwork screaming at you to shut up and stuff. So, at this point, I
pretty much have developed a morbid fascination and am inclined to
simply ask the question to everybody and see how they react. :-) So
now
I am asking you... :-)
Jonathan Revusky
--
lead developer, FreeMarker project, http://freemarker.org/
--- "Frank W. Zammetti" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Craig McClanahan wrote:
No matter where the conversation developed, it has gone in
directions
that
are off topic on this list. Please feel free to continue the
conversation,
but do it somewhere else.
(About to break my own "I'm done posting in this thread" rule)...
Even I, as someone who was knee-deep in this thread for a while,
agree
with Craig. The problem is it was a discussion for a while, but
has
become people just talking over one another now.
I'm all for people expressing their viewpoints, no matter how
unpopular,
but at some point it becomes obvious that no one is listening to
one
another, and then it's an exercise in futility.
No one can stop anyone else from posting, not without locking
someone
out from the list anyway, which I hope never happens to anyone,
but at
some point everyone has to come to the realization that the
conversation
has past the point of being useful in any real way. If no one's
opinion
was changed 30 posts ago, chances are it's not going to happen
now.
Besides, if the points being raised are valid at all, this thread
won't
be the last of its kind... Someone will at some point start
another
and
it'll all come out again, so why not hold back some of the talking
points for next time? ;)
Craig
Frank
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