trainers eat,work and sleep their topic 24/7 in 02 the market here dropped to 0 i took on teaching a Electrical Design course where i was designing a circuits thank GOD for Mathworks Cad program to put forth a good design but I dont design circuits for Trident class subs as some of my class members worked at GD were doing on a daily basis for me going to the books repeatedly allowed me to stay *one step ahead* of the course curriculae
granted Struts is extensive (but not as extensive as Spring) so most of us can still get 8 hours/sleep per nite Rod and Juergen are handling SpringFactories,MVC pattern design and prototypeVsSingleton types, swapping Struts taglibs for JSF and vice-versa while getting by on 2 hours/sleep and speaking at least 3 different languages! the better instructors gauge class flow and say I'll get back to you and hold to that promise that you should never leave a student hanging granted we cant all be stephen hawking but you would need to adhere to these basic requirements 0)order the classes to build on each other ..start with funamentals and iterate forward using the fundamentals 1)teach a subject every week that the students can use in their present situation 2)keep the typeA students occupied with 'special projects' try to get a J2EE project operational on Mono on BSDUnix will keep your most most driven engineers and techs wes-I cant speak for Motorola 64k code (MAC) as i have yet to coded for that platform but it sounds challenging does Struts work on Motorola Price: Bruce works in a subsidised public environment..the rest of us are closer to corporate life where ALL costs are scrutinised down to the penny since budgets are extremely tight..the instructor needs to readily demonstrate if you take my course you will double your output with facts and figures and testimony to justify..5,000 is too much except for the likes of Gates and Ellison Wes: our new prez is anxious to retrain laid off workers to get them working again..Ohio has a potential market of thousands of new recruits.. most schools have at least 1 individual who handles how to get money from bureaucracy FAFSA/Pell/BEOG ..i would look at US Dept of Education as a viable funding source for your location.. some links: http://www.brookings.edu/opinions/2009/0108_stimulus_package_burtless.aspx http://www.educationgrant.com/blog/ Scott et al: like to hear some more about this as this is a GREAT idea Anyone else? Martin Gainty ______________________________________________ Verzicht und Vertraulichkeitanmerkung/Note de déni et de confidentialité Diese Nachricht ist vertraulich. Sollten Sie nicht der vorgesehene Empfaenger sein, so bitten wir hoeflich um eine Mitteilung. Jede unbefugte Weiterleitung oder Fertigung einer Kopie ist unzulaessig. Diese Nachricht dient lediglich dem Austausch von Informationen und entfaltet keine rechtliche Bindungswirkung. Aufgrund der leichten Manipulierbarkeit von E-Mails koennen wir keine Haftung fuer den Inhalt uebernehmen. Ce message est confidentiel et peut être privilégié. Si vous n'êtes pas le destinataire prévu, nous te demandons avec bonté que pour satisfaire informez l'expéditeur. N'importe quelle diffusion non autorisée ou la copie de ceci est interdite. Ce message sert à l'information seulement et n'aura pas n'importe quel effet légalement obligatoire. Étant donné que les email peuvent facilement être sujets à la manipulation, nous ne pouvons accepter aucune responsabilité pour le contenu fourni. > From: w...@wantii.com > To: user@struts.apache.org > Subject: Re: Training > Date: Sun, 7 Jun 2009 13:12:34 -0400 > > On Sunday 07 June 2009 09:24:20 am stanl...@gmail.com wrote: > > Hey Wes and all -- > > > > I have thinking about the Wes training thread and would like to get your > > feedback. Do you guys think training can continue to cost what it has > > historically? The reason I ask is that I too have considered dropping down > > a gear and doing training for a living. However, I get the feeling that > > techies now expect training to cost exactly what their software cost - > > *nothing!* Open source training if you will. Are you getting this > > impression? When I mentioned online training in my follow-up to your > > thread, I had no idea folks were going to say "yeah, and it should also be > > free!" I'm seeing the tide switch and curious to get your take. I have > > considered training & support the avenue to picking up some coin relative > > to FOSS, and now I wonder if this too is expected to be free. > > > > P.S. You give em an inch and they want a mile > > > > Scott > > This is where I have to put on my "business" hat and take off my engineer's > hat for a minute. Personally, I can contribute to OSS simply because it makes > economic sense for me. Being an independent (read, non-Fortune-100) > developer, > I can showcase my talents and make myself relevant in a scenario where karma > and merit help you get ahead. Now, I don't directly get paid for contributing > to Struts, but the karma and merit are the best form of advertising I've seen > for the things I do. A few years ago I presented to a potential client a > scenario where they could contract me, long-term, and I would help them to > create a deliver a product that they had seen as pie-in-the-sky for a while. > I > couldn't quite make it work out. Last year, we re-visited the same scenario, > but this time I came to the table with the same resume, but few line items > added (the OSS projects I am now a contributor to). This closed the deal. > > I generally subscribe to the F/L OSS philosophy, but my kids have to eat too. > Training, like a college education should be expensive, simply because there > is more to it than classroom time. Materials should take a while to gather > into a presentable format. Instructors should be experienced in the art of > content delivery and the instructor should have some name recognition. > > These factors sort of brought me to the notion that I might be a good > instructor. I have experience teaching, I taught at a community college for > years. Add to that, I am one of the struts developers and you should have a > compelling argument for choosing me as a trainer. Scott, you probably fall > pretty close in line with my notion because you co-authored Struts 2 In > Action > and you have worked as a trainer in the past. > > What bugs me is that I searched online for struts training and found some > things offered, but I had not heard of many of these companies. Not that I > think these guys couldn't do a good job, but I think that people offering > training should at least be a part of this community. I have one of those > photographic memories :) so I would recognize names of people and companies > if > they were regular posters here or at d...@struts.a.o. I sort of feel like IT > training is becoming like local dance and martial arts studios. Someone sees > that there is a potential market and decides to exploit it by charging the > market price for delivering sub-par quality material. > > I have been to training from both sides, one training where I ended up > answering questions from the crowd (as a participant... yep, it was that > bad). > And I also attended a Sybase training once from one of the Sybase engineers. > The Sybase training was worth every penny and then some. At the time, it was > a > training paid for by the company who employed me, but had I known the > quality, > I would have paid out of my own pocket since the material was relevant to > what > I was doing. (this was a 5-day training with the typical $5k price tag) > > Personally, I think companies would approve training if they knew that they > would be getting their money's worth. But, I also think that right now would > be about as hard as it could get because budgets are so tight. I am not > necessarily convinced that a low-price online training will work for me > because I would have to procure the necessary equipment and software to > create > something presentable. I could just whip something together, but I personally > am one of those guys that if I do something, I do it all-the-way or not at > all. I feel like there are a few risks with the glue-together low-price > modules of online training. 1. I think someone mentioned that taking a $35 > training would lead to more than a few relationships that start out like > this, > "hey, I paid for your [$35] beginner struts training, now you owe me and I > need you to help me write a MacOS clone in Struts" I always feel like every > relationship should be professional, so if I prefer to set the bar a little > higher. It's not that money = professional, but having been in this industry > a > while, I'm sure many of you know that the best people to work for and with > are > the people who have a clue about the nature of our work. Anyone that would > have said "clue" would be someone that knows that IT training costs what it > costs. 2. Struts is a niche market. There are too many options for smaller > quick projects. I would feel that the low-cost online training might work > better for ASP, PHP or Rails. Most of the Struts projects I have seen are not > get-it-out-quick and the developers are not ramped up quickly on Struts. > Struts takes a certain amount of time to learn. Developers that haven't > worked > on a larger team on a mature project don't seem to appreciate Model 2 and the > value of being able to utilize POJOs at the various layers. I think a lot of > you may have encountered that person or candidate on your team that might > have > put something like struts on their resume because they took a training and > when tasked with a real task they fail miserably because they don't know > quite what they claim. I wouldn't want myself associated with the training > that fed that mentality. In a classroom, you can answer the questions and as > a > good instructor, pick up on someone's lack of fundamental understanding and > work on that. > > To be honest Scott, I'm not convinced that being a trainer would work for me. > Mostly because of my geographical location. I think I could do on-site > trainings, but it's hard to market that sort of thing. It's a bit of a > Catch-22, I don't know that companies would bring me in for the on-site > training unless they could see testimonials of other trainings I had done. > But, it's hard for me to get a classroom training going in Ohio. > > -Wes > > -- > > Wes Wannemacher > Author - Struts 2 In Practice > Includes coverage of Struts 2.1, Spring, JPA, JQuery, Sitemesh and more > http://www.manning.com/wannemacher > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: user-unsubscr...@struts.apache.org > For additional commands, e-mail: user-h...@struts.apache.org > _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail® has ever-growing storage! Don’t worry about storage limits. http://windowslive.com/Tutorial/Hotmail/Storage?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Tutorial_Storage_062009
