On Friday 04 November 2005 8:11 pm, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Dear David,
>
> I know Wordnet and I have played with it for a while. I also had a
> look at other "professional" bibliographic thesaurus, such as the
> CurrentContents Thesaurus.
> The problem is that people working in different subject areas have
> different points of view regarding the "correct" hierarchy.
>
> I agree that it would be very elegant to be able to use something
> like Wordnet as Thesaurus.
> However personally I would prefer to be able to create "my" thesaurus
> myself. I think that perhaps the choice of the word "thesaurus" was
> not a very good one.
> I think rather that simply the keyword database should be relational,
> in the way that each keyword has a number and in the database are
> stored with each keyword the numbers of the keywords that are
> synonymnous (e.g. 0) and the numbers of the keywords that are one up
> in the hierarchy (e.g. 1)  (subjects / topics ?) (down in the
> hierarchy is not interesing for searching).
>
> 1 plant
> 2 tree,1,1
> 3 beech,4,0,2,1
> 4 Fagus,3,0,2,1
> 5 Fagus sylvatica,3,0,4,0
> etc ...
>

> The rudimentary user interface could be simply 2 drop down lists side
> by side with the keywords and between the two lists two checkboxes,
> one that says "..is also called..." for synonyms and one that says
> "... is a ...." for subjects, and a save button. And perhaps one
> "output" button that shows the list including for each keyword the
> synonyms and topics.
> By the way all of this reminds me a little bit of an old sourceforge
> PalmPilot project that was called ThoughtStream : basically here
> notes were organised by associations and links.
> Or also the theory of Semantic networks.I think that there are
> several projects out there that have already produced code for this.
>
> I'm not really a programmer, I mainly do some macro programming,
> however if the bibliographic project is really interested in having
> linked/hierarchical keywords I could try to think more about how to
> realize the input/output/searching in theoretical and UI terms.
>
I am interested and I think it would be a good idea. If you work on a 
description I am willing to set up a web page for it - to help stimulate 
discussion and to make sure we do not forget it.


> Should I switch to the developer list ??
>
Yes, it is much more active.

> Cheers
>
> Oliver
>
> On 4 Nov 2005 at 7:53, David Wilson wrote:
> > Oliver,
> >
> >             Your suggestion sound very usefull.
> >
> > Have you considered how thesaurus software might be used to provide
> > support for this. Wordnet is a thesaurus database which (I think)  has
> > been used as the source for the OOo English thesaurus.
> >
> > The OOo English thesaurus gives for "beech" gives "Beech Tree" and "Tree"
> >
> > A wordnet query gives as one of its several query type results -
> >
> >
> >
> > Sense 1
> > beech, beech tree -- (any of several large deciduous trees with rounded
> > spreading crowns and smooth gray bark and small sweet edible triangular
> > nuts enclosed in burs; north temperate regions)
> >           MEMBER OF: Fagus, genus Fagus -- (beeches)
> >
> > So it would seem that wordnet even provides a latin name list.
> >
> > Worknet also contains a hierachy of terms -
> >
> > beech, beech tree -- (any of several large deciduous trees with rounded
> > spreading crowns and smooth gray bark and small sweet edible triangular
> > nuts enclosed in burs; north temperate regions)
> >        => tree -- (a tall perennial woody plant having a main trunk and
> > branches forming a distinct elevated crown; includes both gymnosperms and
> > angiosperms)
> >            => woody plant, ligneous plant -- (a plant having hard
> > lignified tissues or woody parts especially stems)
> >                => vascular plant, tracheophyte -- (green plant having a
> > vascular system: ferns, gymnosperms, angiosperms)
> >                    => plant, flora, plant life -- (a living organism
> > lacking the power of locomotion)
> >                        => organism, being -- (a living thing that has (or
> > can develop) the ability to act or function independently)
> >                            => living thing, animate thing -- (a living
> > (or once living) entity)
> >                                => object, physical object -- (a tangible
> > and visible entity; an entity that can cast a shadow; "it was full of
> > rackets, balls and other objects")
> >                                    => entity -- (that which is perceived
> > or known or inferred to have its own distinct existence (living or
> > nonliving))
> >
> > Regards
> >
> > David
> >
> > On Friday 04 November 2005 12:20 am, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> > > Hello Biblio-Developers,
> > >
> > > I'm a researcher in natural sciences and I have been using
> > > bibliographis software for a several years now, startig with the
> > > first version of Reference Manager, recently switching to EndNote
> > > (with some regrets), but I have also been testing several
> > > share/freeware programs.
> > > My expectations are rather humble, so most programs would do most
> > > things I like them to, why I got stuck with EndNote is rather a
> > > problem of easy compatibility with colleagues databases.
> > > I have read the basic papers on the web page of the bibliographis
> > > project and I have not much to add (well, there are always details on
> > > a which list .... :-), however there is one thing I would find
> > > immensely useful and have to date not found in any program I tested.
> > > And this is hierarchical keywords
> > > Let me explain with some example from my subject :
> > >  - you might have several references in your list that treat
> > > different tree species : oak, beech, pine, spruce.
> > > now two of these are deciduous (oak , beech) and two are coniferes
> > > (pine, spruce), and all of them are forest trees.
> > > What I would like a bibliographic program able to do is to look up
> > > the keyword "beech" in a thesaurus (that the user created personally
> > > for his keywords) and find that its a deciduous and a tree. With the
> > > effect that I will add to the references the keywords for beech, oak
> > > etc. and when I search for "deciduous" I will find all articles
> > > concerning beech and oak and when I search for "tree" I will find all
> > > references with keywords "oak", "beech", "pine", "spruce".
> > > Basically this consists in linking keywords unidirectionally with one
> > > another.
> > > However also linking bidirectionally is (or even more) important :
> > > same example : in one reference concerning oaks I type "oak" as
> > > reference, in another i might type "Quercus", which is the latin name
> > > for oaks; When I want to search for references concerning oaks, I
> > > always need to remember that there were two possible ways to code the
> > > keyword for this reference and search both. With this simple example
> > > this might seem not a difficult problem, in a conventional program I
> > > just need to do a search of "oak" OR "quercus". However the problem
> > > is that in a scientific reference list that is used for bibliographic
> > > work (that is not only "citing" but mainly searching), there will be
> > > many keywords as example one of my main reference data bases has
> > > about 2000 references abd nearly 3000 keywords). Many of these
> > > keywords will be synonymous and its easy not to remember one of the
> > > synonyms in a search and thus not finding certain articles.
> > > Therefore I would appreciate much if the keyword database of the
> > > bibliographic project could have the ability to be relational so that
> > > one could easily link uni o bi directionally several keywords.
> > >
> > > I would be happy to discuss this more with anybody who has any ideas
> > > on this subject.
> > >
> > > Cheerio
> > >
> > > Oliver Brendel
> > >
> > >
> > > _________________________________________________________
> > > Oliver Brendel UMR Ecologie et Ecophysiologie Forestiere
> > > INRA - Centre de Nancy         54280 Champenoux    France
> > > [EMAIL PROTECTED]   TEL 0033/383/394041 ext4201   FAX /394069
> > >
> > >
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> >
> > --
> > -------------------
> > David N. Wilson
> > Co-Project Lead for the Bibliographic
> > OpenOffice Project
> > http://bibliographic.openoffice.org
>
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-- 
-------------------
David N. Wilson
Co-Project Lead for the Bibliographic 
OpenOffice Project
http://bibliographic.openoffice.org


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