Hi Patrick, I like what your thinking. I've tinkered with this but didn't have time to go it alone. A tremendous amount of Cocoon is based on xml docs itself and there are schemas defined in places like http://cvs.apache.org/viewcvs.cgi/cocoon-2.1/src/documentation/xdocs/drafts/ for at least the sitemap and esql(Maybe more or some dtds from which schemas can be generated). These could be used to show users the constraints and options available. Perhaps Java Bindings http://java.sun.com/xml/jaxb/index.jsp could assist in this. The problem of knowing the options and constraints is not restricted to Cocoon but all xml based technologies. If the generated sitemap <webapp>.xmap of a webapp includes the location of the sitemap-2.1-draft.xsd, then tools that make use of schemas can operate on the xmap doc with assurance it stays a sitemap. For any changes to the sitemap design as other versions 2.2? come out, hopefully the application of schemas makes it easier to maintain your tool; especially if your tool becomes Cocoon based:-) Let me know if you pursue this; maybe a sourceforge project till it incubates a little?
Just a thought... --Roger P.S. LeTourneau of (http://www.letourneau-inc.com/ & http://www.letu.edu/) talks in his autobiography about how proud he was of one of his first earth movers that as a young man he built in his home shop and demonstrated at a fair. Everybody was impressed with the amount of dirt he could move but no one offered to buy one from him. He was perplexed until an elderly gentleman came up to him and said "Son the way you jump, pull levers and climb around, at my age, where can I buy a trained chimpanzee to operate your earth mover?" He went back to his shop, rethought from an operators perspective and built a successful business. Well he went bankrupt and broke his neck more often than a human being should but it never stopped him:-) It's a good read if anyone has the time. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bertrand Delacretaz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2003 2:01 AM Subject: Re: cocoon-blank.war II Le Jeudi, 11 déc 2003, à 06:07 Europe/Zurich, Geoff Howard a écrit : > ...As I see it, these are the problems people have with the build > process: Nice analysis! Let my try to elaborate on it (just my 2 swiss centimes): > 1) emotional shock at having to build at all. Positive IMHO, helps people realize that Cocoon is a tool for *developers*. > 2) java environment problems (jvm instead of jdk, JAVA_HOME not set, > endorsed libs problem?) You have the same problems when running Cocoon later on anyway, having to build it first makes no difference here AFAIK. > 3) winzip empty libs problem ok. > 4) failure to read INSTALL.txt People should do their homework, and maybe help us fix the docs if they're unclear (read the "getting started" tracks for example). > 5) trouble deciphering the options in build.properties and > blocks.properties Agree on this one, that's where a web application (or a build based on a higher-level config file) could help. But generating local.*.properties files would be enough IMHO. > 6) misinterpreting build output (warnings!=failure !) ok, one for the docs I guess. > the web based builder idea helps with all of those, except postpones > the problem with java environment (#2). So maybe a web app that would explain (once again) the steps needed to run Cocoon and spit out local.*.properties files according to the user's options (by activating groups of related blocks) might be useful. More than that is not very practical IMHO. I don't mean to sound cynical - if people are willing to build and maintain front-ends to the build system, why not. But again, I don't think we want Cocoon to be a shrink-wrapped thing that fools people into thinking it is a point-and-click thing, only to have them miserably fail later on. Failing early is certainly better if people do not have the necessary skills/mindset. Again, just my 2c. -Bertrand --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
