> Yes, in the IT world it is
> quite common for technically talented people to exhibit impaired
> social skills.
Not really, in my experience. It's common for IT people to *claim* to
have Asperger Syndrome or some such, but it's not nearly as common as
people think. My experience may be limited, but that still leaves us
with..
> > whether Urmas is a dev and just socially
> > clumsy as so many are.
Most clearly not. His answers often are not just pro Microsoft or
commercial software, but often derogatory of Open Source, and often
outright wrong, not just in terms of beliefs that are known to be
incorrect, but in terms of quoting actual facts that are wrong.
Sometimes even quoted with references, showing that he went to some
trouble to construct his false arguments. Maybe not often, but I'm sure
I've seen it in the past. Which shows clearly that he is not just
socially inept, but actually trying to troll. Equally, some of the off
list messages that have recently been shown on this list are not just
lacking in social graces, they are quite clearly rude and obscene. So I
suggest...
>The only way to stop it entirely is to
> encourage them to go away.
That this would be a good idea. Despite the question of...
> Then what are you left with? Who will
> answer your questions and solve your problems?
Other people. I've only seen Urmas be usefull I think twice, and in
those cases I really don't know how useful his information actually
was. Potentially very, I suppose, but I don't feel the need to keep him
around just for that. But that's only my opinion, of course. Spreading
FUD is one thing, but being abusive and using obscene language I don't
really want to have to put up with. But that said, we're stuck with...
> the reality that, in a venue such as this, you're going to
> encounter such people.
Unfortunate but true. I once asked if we could ban Urmas, and was told
no, he'd just come back in a new guise. I'm still not sure how I feel
about this, but unfortunately it is quite likely true that even if we
did ban him, he would just sign up again under a new name. He seems
intent on trolling this list. And at least at the moment we all mostly
know who he is and know to just ignore his stuff.
As this is the internet, and therefor devoid (rightly so) of physical
involvement, there really is nothing we can do to *make* him stop,
not so long as the list is public. Best we could do would be to
moderate everything, and just not let his stuff past moderation, but
that takes effort on someone's part. I'm not willing to go to all that
trouble myself, so I'd rather just ignore him.
I'm not sure what Tom Cloyd is thinking of here, but he seems to have an
idea about how to proceed. Personally, I don't think it will work, but
I'd still be willing to hear it. And if one doesn't think one should be
trying to intimidate Urmas into leaving, what on earth makes one think
one should be intimidating Tom Cloyd into leaving? Name calling and
nastiness doesn't belong on this list, in my opinion. If people get
tedious, speak your mind, tell them politely what your opinion is,
preferably make a constructive suggestion, then leave it be. If you
can't change their mind, ignore them. This is a public list, you are
free to ignore whatever part of it you want.
Just my thoughts on a matter that has the potential to spiral out of
control. Feel free to disagree, but politely, please. Or to ignore it,
if you so wish.
Paul
On Sun, 11 May 2014 11:57:57 -0400
Jim Seymour <jseym...@linxnet.com> wrote:
> On Sun, 11 May 2014 11:52:18 +0100
> Tom Davies <tomc...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> [snip]
> >
> > On a side-issue ...
> > The ones where Urmas does help are often highly technical. That
> > raises the question of whether Urmas is a dev and just socially
> > clumsy as so many are. Apparently Microsoft have recognised that
> > many engineers and devs have "high functioning" aspergers syndrome
> > or, even further along the spectrum, autism ...
> [snip]
>
> Asperger Syndrome (it's properly capitalized) is often referred-to
> as "functional autism." In any event: Yes, in the IT world it is
> quite common for technically talented people to exhibit impaired
> social skills. It's usually not intentional. Such people are simply
> wired in such a manner that social skills that are second nature to
> "normal" people are, quite simply, incomprehensible to them. Good
> examples of these are the TV show characters Dr. Gregory House, Dr.
> Sheldon Cooper and Dr. Martin Ellingham ("Doc Martin"). These
> characters are all portrayed as being brilliant in their fields, but
> socially inept to the point of being widely regarded as rude and
> unfeeling. (These characters portray behavioural extremes, but they
> are, after all, actors, and it is, after all, entertainment.)
>
> Such people can learn, to a degree, to work within commonly accepted
> social norms, but they will never, ever understand the *need* to do
> so, other than that failing to do so may have (potentially) adverse
> consequences.
>
> This is not to excuse behaviour clearly out-of-bounds, but more to
> explain the reality that, in a venue such as this, you're going to
> encounter such people. The only way to stop it entirely is to
> encourage them to go away. Then what are you left with? Who will
> answer your questions and solve your problems? The likes of
> telephone sanitizers, hairstylists, advertising executives and
> lawyers? ;)
>
> Regards,
> Jim
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