Op 1 dec. 2014, om 06:35 heeft Brian Barker het volgende geschreven: > At 19:56 30/11/2014 +0100, Jaroslaw Staniek wrote: >> On Sunday, 30 November 2014, Brian Barker wrote: >>> At 13:55 30/11/2014 +0100, Jaroslaw Staniek wrote: >>>> Google for "acrobat reader file locking" and you'd notice that this >>>> unnecessary locking is inherent issue of Windows. You're dealing with >>>> behavior largely inherited from the MS DOS era. You can pick other pdf >>>> reader. >>> >>> Surely that evidence falsifies your claim? If it's possible for another >>> reader under the same operating system not to lock the file, then the >>> locking cannot be a property of the operating system, still less of its >>> legacy? In fact, it cannot be: just look at Windows' Notepad, which does >>> not lock files it opens. >> >> Opening for writing locks the on Windows. > > Do you mean that all Windows software capable of editing document files locks > them? Sorry, but that is simply untrue - as I suggested. See > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Notepad_(software) : "Notepad does not require a > lock on the file it opens, so it can open files already opened by other > processes, users, or computers...". So this is surely not about any > difference between operating systems? In any case, file locking is surely in > general a Good Thing, isn't it? LibreOffice locks document files against > opening in another instance of LibreOffice in its own way (under whatever > operating system). The question here should surely be whether you want a PDF > reader that is capable of annotation (and therefore of writing to document > files), and if you do, how you want it to behave. > >> Linux informs that the file was changed or removed if it editing it, that >> models the real world. > > So you mean that I can spend a couple of hours editing a file, only to > discover when I try to save the result that you have been editing it as well, > and I have the choice of either overwriting your changes or abandoning mine? > That's not part of any "real world" I want to inhabit.
No, you get the option to either 'save as' or quit without save. This is also true in some traditional editors in Unix/Linux like emacs. >> Perhaps argument about other readers suggests that the bug should be filled >> against the Adobe app, not LO. > > Sort of. If you need just a reader, you may prefer something that isn't > capable of editing (such as annotation) - so not Adobe Reader, despite its > name. But the original suggestion was that LibreOffice should make a better > fist of handling the lock when it exists. > >> The wish for a special message looks for me like asking for usability-wise >> unfortunate "solution" where LO would ask the user to close the file. > > Yes, just as happens in many other contexts - installing software, for > example. > >> In this scenario LO doesn't even know who's locking ... > > Which is why it would ask the user for decision and action. > >> ... and how to communicate the intent to unlock. > > The suggestion is not that LibreOffice should override the lock, but that it > should report the problem gracefully to the current user - by error message. > >> All that made me write about core problem - pessimistic locking on >> DOS/Windows. > > I don't see how you can blame the operating system. (See above.) Oh, and I > think you'll find that LibreOffice is not available for DOS. > >> Not talking about the context - the OS - leads to situation that apps on >> normally behaving oses show unexpected messages that really make sense for >> Windows. Extra care is needed to avoid that. > > If LibreOffice were to detect the lock, it would not see one if there were no > lock. Why do you think it would produce a message about a lock it didn't > detect? Do you underestimate the designers? > >> I'm not studying the pdf export code of LO but proper development practice >> is to write the new file to a temporary path, then renaming it atomically. >> If that's true the message would appear on the very end anyway. > > But it *could* establish if there was a lock at the beginning of the process. > That's the suggestion (about which I make no comment). > > Brian Barker > > -- > To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org > Problems? > http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ > Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette > List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ > All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted > -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
