Francesco, Our User Tasks add-on for BPMN processes does allow for in-BPMN definitions of fields and approvers (both indivudual users and groups).
You’re probably looking at something that you could fully control via Java APIs, though, and in that case we’d have some work to do to expose these capabilities in that manner, instead of only via REST API endpoints. I think the fundamental pieces of technology are there, but we’d need to understand how to expose them in a more programmatic way. If you’re willing to work together with us, I think there’s good potential for getting something moving in that direction, as I understand having another Apache project as a dependency for handling BPMN models might be beneficial for Syncope in the medium/long term. Let us know! Regards, Tiago Bento On Sat, Apr 26, 2025 at 02:39 Francesco Chicchiriccò <[email protected]> wrote: > Thank you Tiago and Alex for your messages. > > My comments: > > > Could you please clarify whether your invocation of Workflows would be > done via Java APIs or REST APIs? > > Java APIs. > > > For custom form definitions we only provide form code generation > (Bootstrap or PatternFly) commands in our BPMN Editor VS Code extension, > but you can certainly rely on Management Console’s auto-generated forms for > completing User Tasks if you’d like to. > > I was more referring to the capability of defining forms in terms of > abstract fields, approvers etc, with rendering and interaction implemented > by Syncope web components (Admin Console and Self-service Enduser). > This is what we have today. > > > In other words, you can't just embed the engine and send different BPMN > files in runtime, the BPMN files are actually translated in code > > that are executed in runtime. > > This is unfortunate: runtime worlfow definition and update is a key > feature for Syncope. > > I am afraid that this is a showstopper for my PoC, at least for the moment. > Thank you again for your explanations. > > Regards. > > On 25/04/25 15:14, Alex Porcelli wrote: > > One comment on top of Tiago's very helpful email is the fact that in > > KIE today workflows are not dynamic, which means that you need rebuild > > the project everytime the process changes. > > > > In other words, you can't just embed the engine and send different > > BPMN files in runtime, the BPMN files are actually translated in code > > that are executed in runtime. > > > > This approach is aligned with Cloud native architecture, due its > immutability. > > > > > > On Thu, Apr 24, 2025 at 8:54 PM Tiago Bento <[email protected]> > wrote: > >> Hi Francesco, > >> > >> Thank you for your interest in Apache KIE and your insightful email. > >> > >> I definitely think you can build a PoC based on Apache KIE for your > >> use-case. The best resource I can point you to get started at the > >> moment is > >> https://github.com/apache/incubator-kie-kogito-examples/tree/10.0.x, > >> where you’ll find applications showcasing the different capabilities > >> we have. > >> > >> Could you please clarify whether your invocation of Workflows would be > >> done via Java APIs or REST APIs? > >> > >> The web-based modelers you can use are KIE Sandbox > >> (https://sandbox.kie.org, also available as a Container image) or a > >> standalone JavaScript library containing the BPMN Editor itself. I > >> have to say though I’m currently working on a new version of the BPMN > >> Editor, so keep an eye out in the upcoming weeks if you’re interested > >> in helping test it first-hand. This new BPMN Editor will also be > >> consumable as a standard React component. > >> > >> For custom form definitions we only provide form code generation > >> (Bootstrap or PatternFly) commands in our BPMN Editor VS Code > >> extension, but you can certainly rely on Management Console’s > >> auto-generated forms for completing User Tasks if you’d like to. The > >> form code generation and auto-generated form libraries we have for > >> BPMN models are not necessarily ready to be used directly, but with > >> some work they might be. > >> > >> Hope to have helped 😊 > >> > >> Regards, > >> > >> Tiago Bento > >> > >> > >> On Wed, Apr 23, 2025 at 10:28 AM Francesco Chicchiriccò > >> <[email protected]> wrote: > >>> Hi there, > >>> at Syncope we have been integrating 3rd party tools to define user > lifecycle [1] and user requests [2]: currently it's Flowable, it used to be > Activiti until a few years ago. > >>> > >>> We are now looking for a replacement [3], because "you can't trust > freedom when it's not in your hands" (cit.) e.g. we are having troubles > with the Freemium model over there. > >>> > >>> So I have noticed your project in the Incubator and I was wondering if > I could build some kind of PoC to understand whether Kie could be a good > candidate. > >>> > >>> Essentially, we need to embed a BPMN engine, whose API would be > indirectly invoked only by Syncope internal components. > >>> Special needs are (a) form definition to manage approvals and (b) web > UI editor. > >>> > >>> Do you think that Kie would be good for this? If so, would you be able > to suggest some steps about how to create a simple Maven project to > bootstrap and embedded environment? > >>> > >>> Thank you in advance. > >>> Regards. > >>> > >>> [1] > https://syncope.apache.org/docs/4.0/reference-guide.html#workflow-layer > >>> [2] > https://syncope.apache.org/docs/4.0/reference-guide.html#flowable-user-workflow-adapter > >>> [3] https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/SYNCOPE-1718 > > -- > Francesco Chicchiriccò > > Tirasa - Open Source Excellence > http://www.tirasa.net/ > > Member at The Apache Software Foundation > Syncope, Cocoon, Olingo, CXF, OpenJPA > https://about.me/ilgrosso > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [email protected] > For additional commands, e-mail: [email protected] > >
