I share your frustration. I am an Ingres DBA watching us migrate to other platforms. Ingres corp's approach to Ingres on VMS is such that I am not allowed any beta on VMS on any platform. I did get a promise to be able to access it, but it never happened. I am basically not interested in Ingres now - there are better databases out there, and companies who will at least let us try things out.
RIP Ingres -- Chris > -----Original Message----- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Richard Troy > Sent: 06 December 2006 01:19 > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [Users] multiple ingres mailing lists and forums > > > > Hi James, Paul, et al, > > I'm just as disappointed as the rest of you/us at the > apparent lack of appropriate attention to the community part > of the OpenNess of Ingres. PLEASE correct me if I'm wrong, > but I don't perceive there's been anybody but CA and Ingres > Corporation V2.0 who has/have done anything with Ingres to > speak of in over 10 years. I'd have thought that putting > Ingres out there into the Open Source Community would have > sparked a group of people to step up and take over the source > and community building. Clearly that hasn't happened. But > rather than pine about it, I'm ready to do something... > > First off, I'm fairly local to Ingres Corporate Hq, and I had > a pretty damned good intro to their top brass last Wedensday > night. So, I'm prepared to at least try and approach them > head-on with a combination of vision, reason, and ambition to > see this succeed. To that end, I think that your rather > cogent rant, James, provides plenty of material to be the > foundation of a visionary plan. I am asking each of us now to > step forward and help complete a vision statement; what do we > want/need? I am pleased to champion this for us. I'll set up > a web page on Science Tools' web site where I can put > documents for review. I'll email back about this shortly. > Once done, I'd appreciate all of you beating the bushes in an > effort to inform all interested parties to participate in a > vision dialogue. > > Secondly, whether or not Ingres Corporation V 2.0 supports > any or all of the vision, we can create our own community, > and damned well should. Using the vision statement, we can > then distribute workload among ourselves and get this > community off the ground. > > I'm hoping I'm not alone in this - I don't want to be > standing there all alone wondering where everybody is! For > there to be a community, there has to be a core of visionary > leaders who make it happen. Rather than complain about it, > make your vision come to life through action.... > > Please take a moment as you read this to reply back; are YOU > willing to do SOMETHING to help it happen. I'm all ears, > > Richard > > On Sat, 2 Dec 2006, James K. Lowden wrote: > > > > Paul J Stevens wrote: > > > The exotic build process, the lack of support for cutting edge > > > distros, the lack of an active -dev mailinglist, the lack of free > > > documentation all speak of legacy at best, and lack of > commitment to > > > the FOSS strategy at worst. > > > > I'm afraid lack of commitment is not the worst that can be > said, but > > the best. Here's a good measure: How can I discuss > development issues > > with people experienced with the code? > > > > If I begin at > > http://opensource.ingres.com/projects/ingres/DeveloperZone, > > I note there is nothing there for developers. There's > condescension, a > > set of "expectations", the promise of "reward". Please. I get > > expectations and rewards at my day job. > > > > Compare that to > > http://developer.mozilla.org/en/docs/Developing_Mozilla. > > Go ahead, I'll wait. > > > > Now, one question. Which is more complicated: a web browswer, or a > > database? > > > > It's not hard to abandon something as broken as a web-based > forum that > > gets only a few messages a month anyway. It's not hard to > make your > > internal development mailing list public, to move your > support -- is > > there any? -- to a public mailing list. It's not hard to mirror > > public discussions in a variety of technologies. And, judging from > > the volume of messages I've seen, it's not hard to answer > questions. > > All these things happen every day on smaller projects with no paid > > staff. Look at Postgres, at Firebird. > > > > Especially look at Mozilla, because that's the model. It > took Mozilla > > years of going it alone, fixing up the code, staying > public-focussed, > > before it attracted a community. > > > > I began to port Ingres to NetBSD not long after CA > re-released it. I > > made some progress, got some of it to compile. But when I had > > questions about the semantics of atomic memory-object > locking, there > > was no one to ask. > > > > I have to believe there are other qualified developers who are also > > interested in Ingres, but are savvy enough not to put in their time > > until they see a flock gathering. > > > > Are you listening, Ingres? I am the sound of one hand clapping. > > > > --jkl > > _______________________________________________ > > Users mailing list > > [email protected] > http://lists.ingres.com/mailman/listinfo/users > > > > -- > Richard Troy, Chief Scientist > Science Tools Corporation > 510-924-1363 or 202-747-1263 > [EMAIL PROTECTED], http://ScienceTools.com/ > > _______________________________________________ > Users mailing list > [email protected] http://lists.ingres.com/mailman/listinfo/users > _______________________________________________ Users mailing list [email protected] http://lists.ingres.com/mailman/listinfo/users
