I share your frustration.

I am an Ingres DBA watching us migrate to other platforms. Ingres corp's
approach to Ingres on VMS is such that I am not allowed any beta on VMS on
any platform. I did get a promise to be able to access it, but it never
happened. I am basically not interested in Ingres now - there are better
databases out there, and companies who will at least let us try things out.

RIP Ingres

-- 
Chris

> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Richard Troy
> Sent: 06 December 2006 01:19
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: [Users] multiple ingres mailing lists and forums
> 
> 
> 
> Hi James, Paul, et al,
> 
> I'm just as disappointed as the rest of you/us at the 
> apparent lack of appropriate attention to the community part 
> of the OpenNess of Ingres. PLEASE correct me if I'm wrong, 
> but I don't perceive there's been anybody but CA and Ingres 
> Corporation V2.0 who has/have done anything with Ingres to 
> speak of in over 10 years. I'd have thought that putting 
> Ingres out there into the Open Source Community would have 
> sparked a group of people to step up and take over the source 
> and community building. Clearly that hasn't happened. But 
> rather than pine about it, I'm ready to do something...
> 
> First off, I'm fairly local to Ingres Corporate Hq, and I had 
> a pretty damned good intro to their top brass last Wedensday 
> night. So, I'm prepared to at least try and approach them 
> head-on with a combination of vision, reason, and ambition to 
> see this succeed. To that end, I think that your rather 
> cogent rant, James, provides plenty of material to be the 
> foundation of a visionary plan. I am asking each of us now to 
> step forward and help complete a vision statement; what do we 
> want/need? I am pleased to champion this for us. I'll set up 
> a web page on Science Tools' web site where I can put 
> documents for review. I'll email back about this shortly. 
> Once done, I'd appreciate all of you beating the bushes in an 
> effort to inform all interested parties to participate in a 
> vision dialogue.
> 
> Secondly, whether or not Ingres Corporation V 2.0 supports 
> any or all of the vision, we can create our own community, 
> and damned well should. Using the vision statement, we can 
> then distribute workload among ourselves and get this 
> community off the ground.
> 
> I'm hoping I'm not alone in this - I don't want to be 
> standing there all alone wondering where everybody is! For 
> there to be a community, there has to be a core of visionary 
> leaders who make it happen. Rather than complain about it, 
> make your vision come to life through action....
> 
> Please take a moment as you read this to reply back; are YOU 
> willing to do SOMETHING to help it happen. I'm all ears,
> 
> Richard
> 
> On Sat, 2 Dec 2006, James K. Lowden wrote:
> >
> > Paul J Stevens wrote:
> > > The exotic build process, the lack of support for cutting edge 
> > > distros, the lack of an active -dev mailinglist, the lack of free 
> > > documentation all speak of legacy at best, and lack of 
> commitment to 
> > > the FOSS strategy at worst.
> >
> > I'm afraid lack of commitment is not the worst that can be 
> said, but 
> > the best. Here's a good measure: How can I discuss 
> development issues 
> > with people experienced with the code?
> >
> > If I begin at 
> > http://opensource.ingres.com/projects/ingres/DeveloperZone,
> > I note there is nothing there for developers.  There's 
> condescension, a
> > set of "expectations", the promise of "reward".  Please.  I get
> > expectations and rewards at my day job.
> >
> > Compare that to 
> > http://developer.mozilla.org/en/docs/Developing_Mozilla.
> > Go ahead, I'll wait.
> >
> > Now, one question.  Which is more complicated: a web browswer, or a 
> > database?
> >
> > It's not hard to abandon something as broken as a web-based 
> forum that 
> > gets only a few messages a month anyway.  It's not hard to 
> make your 
> > internal development mailing list public, to move your 
> support -- is 
> > there any? -- to a public mailing list.  It's not hard to mirror 
> > public discussions in a variety of technologies.  And, judging from 
> > the volume of messages I've seen, it's not hard to answer 
> questions.  
> > All these things happen every day on smaller projects with no paid 
> > staff.  Look at Postgres, at Firebird.
> >
> > Especially look at Mozilla, because that's the model.  It 
> took Mozilla 
> > years of going it alone, fixing up the code, staying 
> public-focussed, 
> > before it attracted a community.
> >
> > I began to port Ingres to NetBSD not long after CA 
> re-released it.  I 
> > made some progress, got some of it to compile. But when I had 
> > questions about the semantics of atomic memory-object 
> locking, there 
> > was no one to ask.
> >
> > I have to believe there are other qualified developers who are also 
> > interested in Ingres, but are savvy enough not to put in their time 
> > until they see a flock gathering.
> >
> > Are you listening, Ingres?   I am the sound of one hand clapping.
> >
> > --jkl
> > _______________________________________________
> > Users mailing list
> > [email protected] 
> http://lists.ingres.com/mailman/listinfo/users
> >
> 
> -- 
> Richard Troy, Chief Scientist
> Science Tools Corporation
> 510-924-1363 or 202-747-1263
> [EMAIL PROTECTED], http://ScienceTools.com/
> 
> _______________________________________________
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> [email protected] http://lists.ingres.com/mailman/listinfo/users
> 

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