On Wed, 29 Oct 2014 00:33:04 +0100 Karsten Bräckelmann <guent...@rudersport.de> wrote:
> On Tue, 2014-10-28 at 11:19 -0700, jdebert wrote: > > On Tue, 28 Oct 2014 04:27:14 +0100 > > Karsten Bräckelmann <guent...@rudersport.de> wrote: > > > On Mon, 2014-10-27 at 19:44 -0700, jdebert wrote: > > > > > Redirecting them makes people lazy. Better than annoying but > > > > they don't learn anything except to repeat their mistakes. > > > > > > Your assumption, the list moderators (aka owner, me being one of > > > them) would simply and silently obey and dutifully do the > > > un-subscription for them, is flawed. ;) > > > > This assumption is unwarranted. I did not say that. > > You said that the unsubscribe-to-list posting user would not learn and > get lazy, when those posts get redirected to the owner rather than > hitting the list. Not exactly what I said. > > Not learning: False. As I said, moderators would respond with > explanation and instructions. In particular learning about his mistake > and how to properly (and in future) unsubscribe, does make him learn. > Since we'd not just unsub him, the user will even have to proof that > he learned, by following procedures unsubscribing himself. False as evidenced by how the same people repeat the same thing on the same list and on other lists. Got it. > > Getting lazy: People are lazy. But since there's absolutely nothing we > would simply do for them, there's no potential in the process to get > lazy over. They will have to read and understand how to do it. And > they will have to follow every step of the unsub procedure themselves. > The long form of saying we're agreed. And one of the reasons to automate the process. > > > Did you read the rest of the message? > > Yes. And quite frankly, "catching unsub messages and bouncing them > with a note" as you mentioned is almost identical to the proposed > "redirect them to owner" to handle it. With the latter involving > moderators, having the advantage, that we can and will offer > additional help if need be. > Having the listserver catch the messages and handle them is "almost identical" to redirecting them to the owner for manual handling? I could see that if list owners still managed lists manually. But there's this nifty new software that manages lists automatically, freeing the list owners from all that drudge work. Your assumption is that I am telling you to do all this manually. You seemed to be ambivalent about this, not preferring to do it manually but seeming to prefer to do it manually. My assumption was expecting it to occur to everyone that it might be done automatically. I really did not expect to have to write to ISO-9002 standards on a user list. jd
