Hi all, Maybe the solution to the problems with bad posts can be solved by an email once a month that describes exactly what the accepted posting policy is. I realize these are already known by many and are covered in this thread but spelling it out each month cant hurt.
Dave. -----Original Message----- From: David Smith [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, 1 April 2006 12:42 AM To: Tomcat Users List Subject: Re: tomcat 5.0 vs. 5.5? tomcat 5.5 has been bad! Then you are most definitely one of the better posters to the list. I hope you don't take my message too personally. I was really responding to Tim's comments. Overall it looks like logging is an area where someone might want to volunteer a documentation patch to tomcat. --David Dean Hiller wrote: > Those things I did....you can read my previous posts. warning though: > newbs have a hard time doing this, so go easy on us. I had no idea > what to include from the beginning. I had to search my way through it. > thanks, > dean > > David Smith wrote: > >> Too true Tim. I've been on this list since the tomcat 3 days and it >> never fails to impress me how many questions fall into one of three >> categories: >> >> 1) Questions easily answerable by reading the docs. These are the RTFM >> questions. >> 2) Repeats of previously posted and answered questions. These are the >> "Search the Fantastic Web" (STFW) questions. >> 3) Questions so devoid of any useful information they are completely >> unanswerable. The "it doesn't work, please help" questions. >> >> Don't get me wrong -- there are some excellent questions with even >> better answers. I stay on the list for those gems. >> >> For those out there who are thinking about asking questions, here's my >> advice: >> >> 1) Define you problem. The more detail you gather, the better for both >> yourself and those that help. Specifically take a look at the logs and >> consider the demands your webapp is making on the server. >> >> 2) If you are designing a webapp or library, insert effective logging >> from the beginning. With both commons-logging and log4j, the log level >> and classes being logged can be controlled from their respective >> configuration files. The logging can be left in for production, just >> reconfigure for error level logging and the debug stuff won't show. >> >> 3) Do a couple of searches on your favorite search engine even if all >> you get out of it is the proper terms to describe your issue. In the >> process you may also find similar posts to shed some light on your >> problem. >> >> 4) Take a look the online docs for the product you are using. Tomcat >> leverages a fair number of other projects and standards. Those docs may >> also apply to your problem. For instance in this thread, >> Commons-Logging and Log4j project docs would help. >> >> 5) Don't be shy about posting a long email. The important things are to >> be specific, show relevant code and complete log info. You may have >> been staring at your problem for two weeks -- we haven't and need the >> info to help. >> >> --David >> >> Tim Lucia wrote: >> >> >> >>> Switch places with them for a minute -- They are providing free >>> support and >>> pretty good support at that. Note that there are many, many basic >>> questions >>> that could easily be answered by reading the documentation ("RTFM") >>> or by >>> Googling ("STFW"), but instead posters demand immediate help as their >>> homework is due in 20 minutes, or their boss is sitting in the chair >>> behind >>> them. Now take a potshot at the most useful, widely used, and >>> COMPLETELY >>> FREE application server, which you paid nothing for, have no support >>> contract for (again, you paid nothing), and occasionally someone is >>> bound to >>> take it a little personally. I have (casually) observed that the >>> level of >>> 'snippetyness' from the responder is inversely proportional to the >>> quality >>> of the question. >>> >>> On the subject of log4j.jar without log4j.properties, don't get mad at >>> Tomcat / Tomcat developers. Get mad at the idiot developers who >>> shipped a >>> war file without a) knowing how to perform logging and b) performing >>> basic >>> testing. >>> I help out when I can. If I'm not sure, but have a minute, *I* will >>> often >>> STFW and/or RTFM to make sure. If I can do it, then so can you (the >>> royal >>> you) and you didn't have to post. Ask intelligent questions, and >>> you will >>> get intelligent answers. Show an unwillingness to learn anything, >>> and you >>> will get snubbed. >>> >>> Tim >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Allistair Crossley [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: >>> Friday, March 31, 2006 6:39 AM >>> To: Tomcat Users List >>> Subject: RE: tomcat 5.0 vs. 5.5? tomcat 5.5 has been bad! >>> >>> Please don't think it's the whole Tomcat community Dean, there are some >>> really helpful devs on Tomat, it's just Remy in particular has a >>> problem >>> being polite/arrogant about Tomcat - I guess from his privileged >>> point of >>> view he understands everything about Tomcat and therefore does not >>> understand what usability is all about. >>> >>> All the best, AC. >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Dean Hiller [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 31 March 2006 11:39 >>> To: Tomcat Users List >>> Subject: Re: tomcat 5.0 vs. 5.5? tomcat 5.5 has been bad! >>> >>> wow! you guys sound pretty harsh when it comes to messages to help >>> users >>> on simple mistakes then. I recently dropped in someone else's >>> example app >>> war file that had the SAME PROBLEM.....latest facelets. I could not >>> even >>> give back information to help them debug the problem. It was standard >>> tomcat 5.5.16. It worked on 5.0 just fine. I now know that I need >>> to unzip >>> their war file, remove log4j(and maybe even hope that they are using >>> commons, because if they are not, I may be utterly screwed). Then I >>> need to >>> redeploy their app. I need to do all this because tomcat is >>> unwilling to >>> give good helpful messages as to what is going on(as seen by all the >>> other >>> posts that have had trouble figuring out their problems behind that >>> error >>> with no reponses either.....I was the lucky one and finally figured >>> out what >>> was wrong). I can only hope others can find my solution post without >>> wasting too much time. >>> later, >>> dean >>> >>> >>> >>> Remy Maucherat wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>> On 3/30/06, Markus Schönhaber <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>> The RuntimeException is to make it more noticeable in the logs. >>>>>> I mean >>>>>> 953 hits on googling is quite alot of people having trouble. >>>>>> Would be nice to cut that number down with an easy log statement >>>>>> that tomcat could add!!! >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Well, if it's really that easy you should definitely provide a patch. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> I recommend not wasting time, as I would refuse such a nonsensical >>>> patch. The actual worakround is to learn how to properly use >>>> logging, which seems to be a useful skill. >>>> >>>> -- >>>> xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx >>>> Rémy Maucherat >>>> Developer & Consultant >>>> JBoss Inc >>>> xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx >>>> >>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>>> For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>> For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> <FONT SIZE=1 FACE="VERDANA,ARIAL" COLOR=BLUE> >>> ------------------------------------------------------- >>> QAS Ltd. >>> Registered in England: No 2582055 >>> Registered in Australia: No 082 851 474 >>> ------------------------------------------------------- >>> </FONT> <FONT SIZE=1 FACE="VERDANA,ARIAL" COLOR=BLACK> Disclaimer: >>> The information contained within this e-mail is confidential >>> and may be privileged. 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