On Tue, Dec 1, 2009 at 5:17 PM, Lester Chua <cicowic...@gmail.com> wrote: > Hi, > > Took some time to pick up this thread again as we were preparing for the UAT > of the application rewrite using Wicket =) for the last 2 weeks. > The UAT was quite successful, with minor modifications required (expected). > The real good news is that Wicket performed admirably in terms of > productivity and the bugs tracing and fixes in the lead up to the UAT. > We rewrote the modules in under a month (the original took about 4). The > productivity boost actually came from the tweaks we needed for UI > interaction as well as code tracing when unexpected behaviour occured. > > The experience using Wicket has been real refreshing, I truly enjoyed the > departure from the model2 as well as the json-rest/rich-client frameworks > we were used to. > > Ok enough ambling. I have some responses below. > > Igor Vaynberg wrote: >> >> On Wed, Nov 18, 2009 at 9:27 PM, Lester Chua <cicowic...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> >>> Thanks for the reply. >>> >>> >>>>> >>>>> 1) Product Roadmap (Release plans, upcoming features etc) >>>>> This is important to us because it will at least indicate the >>>>> intentions >>>>> of >>>>> Wicket Team. As any technology that is adopted enterprise-wide needs to >>>>> be >>>>> long-lived and well supported in addition to it's features and >>>>> technology, >>>>> some visibility about the product lifecycle is required. >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> http://cwiki.apache.org/WICKET/wicket-15-wish-list.html >>>> http://cwiki.apache.org/WICKET/wicket-14-wish-list.html >>>> >>>> >>> >>> I did see the wishlist but was wishing for something more like a roadmap >>> with projected release timelines, I can see why that it will probably not >>> be >>> accurate for an open sourced project but an indication of a rough ETA and >>> included features will be good. >>> >>> By the way, is the wishlist official? As in are the features present in >>> the >>> wishlist official? Or is the wishlist used as an idea incubator/exchange? >>> >> >> its an idea incubator >> > > Although it's nice to have the wishlist, it's a shame that the Wicket does > not publish a roadmap (even a limited one with just key specific features to > be improved on). > Is is a resource/maintenance issue you have that prevents you from doing so? > Or is it more of a management decision to not publish the roadmap so that > you can avoid "commiting" to a timeline? > > The reason why I'm asking this is partly selfish. The organization that I'm > pushing Wicket in has a technical committee that review frameworks/platforms > for use. Anything that does not fall into their recommended list will need a > waiver to be used and deployed. Yea I know, very cumbersome but it's a fact > of life here, and I suspect in many other organizations that have security > as one of their top concerns. > > After using Wicket in a real life app conversion, I think I'm able to > address most points that has been raised including security (very pleased on > that front) and productivity etc. But part of the checklist I am forced to > go through is estimated product life span, road map etc. > > Unfortunately, It's here that I'm stumped. Has anyone else been through this > hoop-la-loop that your organization forced you to go through for the > introduction of Wicket? If so it'll be great if the information on how that > was achieved can be shared as it'll help me immensely in the fight to get > Wicket into my enterprise environment.
it is a combination of all these things. mainly we do not want to commit to a feature set because we do not know what our resources will be during the build phase. we have a general idea of what we want to do and how, and that is outlined in discussions on the mailing lists. >>>> 2) Recent Adoption Statistics (No of downloads, usage projections) >>>> We need this to gauge the interest in the project. Has it peaked? What >>>> is the pattern like? >>>> >>>> ++ Nice idea >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>>> a) Although there is examples and documentation available on Wicket >>>>> main >>>>> site and Wicket stuff, I find that the organization of the information >>>>> is >>>>> probably not friendly enough for easy viewing. E.g. the examples site >>>>> does >>>>> not contain source and viewable example together in an easy to read >>>>> page. >>>>> This can be improved on significantly. >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> "you and your team are welcome to contribute, great ideas btw" >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> Planning to once I get up to speed. >>> >>>>> >>>>> Being such an easy to use component framework, I am really puzzled >>>>> about >>>>> why the >>>>> plugin development seems so bare >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> One reason is that it's so easy to make plugins it feels unnecessary >>>> to publish them. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> Actually I kinda disagree. Take Delphi which was awesome for it's >>> component >>> architecture and IDE. Writing components and packaging them was very easy >>> but it had a HUGE thriving component library market place where you can >>> literally purchase thousands of packages and libraries. >>> >> >> desktops apps are different, you can build any kind of component you >> want. wicket works with server-side html and there is a limited set of >> things you can build. if you need a slider then the chances are we >> wont provide it, we dont need to, just use wicket to output a hidden >> field and make a slider out of it using jquery or some other frontend >> library. in about two minutes you can wrap that into a jqueryslider >> component, would you take the time to share something that took two >> minutes to build? some people do, there are a couple of projects out >> there that provide integrations between wicket and jquery, but most >> people dont end up sharing. >> >> > > In terms of functionalities that users want that can be offered, they are > not that much different. When Desktop apps are common in the enterprises, > most desktop apps are just a front that baby sits a database. True what you > can achieve and how you achieve is very different on desktops vs web, but > what I'm comparing here is that Wicket should leverage it's component aspect > to advance itself as a product. > > Technical excellence is rarely a determinant in deciding whether a product > achieves widespread adoption. Marketing, Mindshare, Support, are very > important. Look at the piece of junk JSF has achieved in terms of adoption. > After working a bit more with Wicket, I can see that what you say is kinda > true. But that does not mean that Wicket will not benefit from a market > place for the quick and easy solution. Need a component that behaves like > the once exactly, why just download a 20 bucks JAR and pluck it into my app > and saves 2 hours of coding/testing (I'm not at the stage that I can build a > component in 2 minutes yet =)). > > A market place also indicates VERY accurately the adoption rates and > activity for new comers like myself. It is very reassuring to know that the > last component on sale/or distributed as freeware was released just a couple > of weeks ago and there are more that X components actively maintained. you are welcome to build one. but as you will see, there is not much demand for precanned components out there, they are just too easy to roll yourself and there are a lot of open source ones that you can at least get ideas from for your specific requirements. -igor > > >>>>> c) The mailing list is wonderful and I have had some questions very >>>>> quickly >>>>> answered, which points to an active and supportive community for which >>>>> I'm >>>>> grateful. If there is a way to harness this and make the information >>>>> more >>>>> easily accessible, it'll be awesome. >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> Google reaches most of the discussion via nable/osdir. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> Yea, that is how I got most of the solutions to my little set of >>> problems. >>> =) Just wishing that it can be better. >>> >> >> hrm, you posted about six messages on our lists, and most times you >> got an answer within a couple of hours. that is better then most >> commercial support out there. and yet you are still complaining? :) >> >> -igor >> >> > > And I truly appreciate that =). > >>>> My 2cents worth ;) >>>> >>>> >>>> ** >>>> Martin >>>> >>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@wicket.apache.org >>>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@wicket.apache.org >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@wicket.apache.org >>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@wicket.apache.org >>> >>> >>> >> >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@wicket.apache.org >> For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@wicket.apache.org >> >> > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@wicket.apache.org > For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@wicket.apache.org > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@wicket.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@wicket.apache.org
