Pat,

I defer to your experience.  Logic alone is no substitute for a well executed 
experiment.

John

On Wednesday 05 November 2003 04:17, Pat Naughtin wrote:
> on 5/11/03 3:06 PM, John S. Ward at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> Dear John,
>
> I have interspersed some remarks.
>
> > Hi Pat,
> >
> > I still have a hard time accepting the general message that mm are always
> > preferable to cm.
>
> That's understandable and you are not alone. Many others � even on this
> list � have trouble with this, and so did I for many years. I simply could
> not understand why metrication programs using millimetres worked so well,
> and metrication programs using centimetres hardly worked at all. I kept
> saying things like, 'Can't they see that it's simple � can't they just move
> the decimal point'.
>
> However, the evidence before me was irrefutable and it would not go away.
>
> My conclusions are based on many years of personal observation in many
> different activities.
>
> For example, I directly observed, as a trainer of trade teachers, the ease
> of the metric transition for these trades: boilermakers, bricklayers,
> carpenters, fitters and machinists, furniture builders, piano makers,
> plumbers, and welders.
>
> I also observed the difficulties faced by cooks, tanners, and textile
> workers such as scourers, carders, gillers, combers, spinners, weavers, and
> knitters when they tried the same metrication process using centimetres.
>
> Simply put, if a group decided to 'Go metric' using millimetres, the
> process was quick and relatively easy. It didn't matter whether the people
> concerned were scientists, technicians, or bricklayer's laborers.
> Generally, the metrication process took about a year for most people, with
> only a few laggards delaying their metric transition for up to three years.
>
> On the other hand, if a group decided to 'Go metric' using centimetres, the
> process is slow, difficult, accompanied by moaning, groaning, and threats
> of mutiny. Using centimetres, the metrication process for these groups has
> taken 33 years � so far � and there is no clear end in sight. [As a side
> issue, this is the path to metrication apparently chosen by the world's
> computer industry � I wish them well.]
>
> > My biggest complaint is that for longer lengths it makes
> > numbers inconveniently long and difficult to read.
> >
> > If you look through your list, most of the professions that use mm are
> > either technical, or involve small sizes or tolerances more fitting for
> > mm.  I suggest that your mm professions caught on more quickly because
> > they are more technically minded and measure length more often than, say,
> > a baker, cook, gardener, or tree surgeon.
>
> Think about the bricklayer's laborers that I mentioned earlier. We are not
> talking about intellectual giants here, but these folk had little trouble
> adjusting to house plans that contained numbers like 22 800 mm for the
> length of a wall. One of the reasons for this, I think, is that the big
> numbers have given their users three distinct advantages on a building
> site:
>
> 1   There are never any fractions.
> 2   There are never any decimal points.
> 3   Calculations are mostly simple, but if they're not, they can be fed
> into a calculator without conversions.
>
> If you compare this with the issues confronted by a textile worker (say a
> weaver) who still has to:
>
> 1   Negotiate halves and maybe quarters and eighths of metres and
> centimetres.
> 2   There are almost always decimal points with varying numbers of digits
> to the right of them.
> 3   Calculations might involve fractions, decimals or both of these. For
> example, how many 7 1/2 centimetre squares can I cut from 3/4 of a metre of
> fabric looks difficult, but how many 75 mm squares can I cut from 750 mm
> looks much easier. Calculations often have to be mentally converted before
> they can be fed into a calculator.
>
> > I am using mm for my work because I'm working with parts less than 1000 m
> > long with tolerances ranging from 0.001 to 1 mm.  This works out great,
> > because I never have more than 3 digits on either side of the decimal. 
> > Many dimension ARE hard-metric to the nearest mm, so I don't waste my
> > time working with 6 digit numbers in these cases.
>
> This is what most people do within their workplace. They arrange for their
> units to provide convenient numerical values. Scientists and technicians
> will sometimes (often) create their own special (jargon) units for this
> purpose. I was often puzzled by the inability to communicate the idea of
> wool tenacity between wool combers and wool spinners, until I discovered
> that one lot were using newtons per kilotex as their unit and the other lot
> were using centinewtons per tex as theirs; one lot defined tex as grams per
> kilometre and the other lot defined it as milligrams per metre.
>
> As you and I know, it is only a matter of sliding decimal points backwards
> and forwards � but how far and how often do you have to do it is very
> important to those (such as textile mill workers) whose numerical skills
> are not well developed; to them kilotex and centinewtons are just
> incomprehensible jargon.
>
> I remember being profoundly impressed by some research done on the
> mathematical skills of adult Australians. This showed that slightly less
> than half of their subjects could readily (within a fixed time limit) add
> three items (such as $7.80, $13.25, and $11.90) from a restaurant luncheon
> menu. When they included the complexity of calculating a 10 % discount or
> 10 % tip (just slide the decimal point remember!) the number able to do
> this dropped to less than 10 %.
>
> > I would certainly not want to do landscape gardening in mm!
>
> A friend of mine is a landscape architect. I asked him what units he used
> and he replied that all of his drawings are done in metres or millimetres.
> When I asked why he replied, 'So all the tradesmen on the job can
> understand them and we never have to change from one lot of units to
> another. The large site layout drawings are done with the note, "All
> dimensions in metres" but anything that shows any detail has a note in the
> corner that says, "All dimensions in millimetres" and I have never seen
> anyone using centimetres'.
>
> To conclude, let me go back to your initial remark:
> > I still have a hard time accepting the general message that mm are always
> > preferable to cm.
>
> I don't think 'that millimetres are always preferable to centimetres'. For
> example, I do not doubt Marcus Berger's assertion that centimetres work
> well in Brasil. However, I have to wonder, based on my own experience, how
> long it took the Brasilians (from 1862) to make their metric transition.
> Did it take fifty weeks or did it take fifty years?
>
> I firmly believe that if you are planning a transition to metric and you
> want it to go relatively quickly and smoothly, then choose millimetres as
> your small unit. I commend to you these policy statements from the
> Australian building industry policy documents:
>
> �The SI units for linear measurement in building and construction will be
> the metre (m) and the millimetre (mm), with the kilometre (km) being used
> where required. This will apply to all sectors of the industry, and the
> centimetre (cm) shall not be used.� Standards Association of Australia,
> 1972, �Metric Handbook � Metric Conversion in Building and Construction �
> SAA MH1-1972�
>
> With these words the Australian Building and Construction Advisory
> Committee effectively banished centimetres from the building trades in
> Australia with the result that metric conversion in these trades was
> smooth, rapid, and complete. They made it clear that the centimetre should
> generally not be used, and in particular, "the centimetre should not be
> used in any calculation and it should never be written down" (op. cit.)
>
> Cheers,
>
> Pat Naughtin LCAMS
> Geelong, Australia
>
> Pat Naughtin is the editor of the free online newsletter, 'Metrication
> matters'. You can subscribe by sending an email containing the words
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