Heyyyyy.....
it's not Friday! :)
At 21:33 2009-04-09, Jeremiah MacGregor wrote:
It seems the Japanese knew the truth about the true size of the
records before the English speakers did.
What reason would you give that the records are rounded metric and
don't live up to their inch name?
Jerry
From: Bill Potts <w...@wfpconsulting.com>
To: U.S. Metric Association <usma@colostate.edu>
Sent: Monday, April 6, 2009 2:21:52 PM
Subject: [USMA:44446] RE: Records
Steve:
I have a 1980s-era Kenwood KD5070, which has a resin-concrete base
(anti-resonance). It's direct-drive "full-automatic" single-play. I
bought it (new) here in California. Its illuminated stroboscope has
tracks for both 33-1/3 and 45 revolutions per minute at both 50 Hz and 60 Hz.
It has a knob for setting the size of the record being played. There
are four settings for the knob: 30, 25, 17, and Manual. That neither
proves nor disproves your historical assertion regarding the oldest
records (which go back to long before the introduction of long-play
vinyl). It does show that Matsushita (the real name behind Kenmore
and, at one time, TRIO) chose SI (and only SI) for the turntables it
was selling internationally in the 1980s.
In the Instruction Manual, specifications are given in metric units,
with parenthetical US customary units in some (but not all) cases.
Incidentally, my wife and I were revisiting our ABBA LPs last night
-- still in perfect condition. We also have quite a bit of our
classical collection (including all of Beethoven's Symphonies) on
Deutsche Grammophon LPs (although we now have vastly more on 120 mm
CDs). Occasionally, I'll still play some of my Timeline Swing Era
collection (also in perfect condition).
As a final note, one of our two black-and-white cats sometimes
settles down on the hinged dust cover, even when a record is playing.
Bill
----------
Bill Potts
<http://wfpconsulting.com/>WFP Consulting
Roseville, CA
<http://metric1.org/>http://metric1.org [SI Navigator]
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From: owner-u...@colostate.edu [mailto:owner-u...@colostate.edu] On
Behalf Of Stephen Humphreys
Sent: Saturday, April 04, 2009 17:57
To: U.S. Metric Association
Subject: [USMA:44359] RE: Records
I know someone who works in the production of vinyl records.
Besides the fact that 12" (10" and 7") were around since the UK/US
even knew of metric they are still imperial based today.
What you (JPS) don't realise (although in reality you prob do) is
the shrinkage after the first 14" inches are pressed.
If it helps high quality records are usually expressed in grammes
(eg 130 gramme vinyl).
You may see a difference here - I purposefully point out metric
usage in vinyl record production whereas our returning poster cannot
debate the idea that records can possibly be anything but metric and
searches google for a rare mention of metric. From Germany.
As it happens I'm an audiophile and analog is my big hobby - I
wonder if anyone out there shares my passion and has a Linn Sondek
LP12 deck? :-D
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Date: Sat, 4 Apr 2009 06:53:56 -0700
From: jeremiahmacgre...@rocketmail.com
Subject: [USMA:44328] RE: Records
To: usma@colostate.edu
CC: usma@colostate.edu
Brian,
My point is that the records never were the dimensions stated in
inches. Go measure them, just don't look at them. The 7 and 10
inch records were originally designed with metric dimensions in mind
as 175 and 250 mm and those dimensions continued on even when the
name was changed.
The LPs made by American companies are 302 mm (not 305 mm) and the
ones by foreign companies are a true 300 mm. Even if it was
conceived in inches it wasn't 12 (305 mm). It goes to show you that
those who claim to know inches don't really recognize them when they
are wrong and refuse to measure them for fear of having to admit the
truth that they are not an imperial conceived product. I believe
they would fall into the category of hidden metric.
The so-called 3.5 inch floppy disk fell into the same category. It
was a true metric product of 90 x 94 x 3.3 mm.
Jerry
From: "br...@bjwhite.net" <br...@bjwhite.net>
To: U.S.. Metric Association <usma@colostate.edu>
Cc: U.S. Metric Association <usma@colostate.edu>
Sent: Saturday, April 4, 2009 12:22:18 AM
Subject: [USMA:44321] RE: Records
Interesting. In my opinion this is one of those situations where
the inch term can still be used even if the US was totally
metric. Nothing wrong with calling an album a 12
inch. (Technically the 33 is a 33 1/2 rpm album....)
Speaking of that, the Ice-T song "I'm your pusher" had a little
dialogue in which a supposed drug user is asking Ict-T for some
drugs and Ice-T responds, "I can hook you up with a twelve inch."
I do agree with you Jerry that mostly in the US we say 45s and LPs
vs the size. However, there are many instances (usually corner
cases) where inches were used.
I remember back in the day, during my hardcore punk listening days,
bands would "cut a 7 inch". At the same time, you'd get special
remixes usually on a "12 inch". I still have a handful of 7 inch
records cut by small indie bands....and also a full 12" extended mix
of Michael Jackson's Billie Jean.
......and lots of times when these extended mixes would be released
on CDs, they'd be refered to as 12" extended mix. I have quite a
few Depeche Mode special issues with these references, although to
be fair, mostly they were reissues containing UK dance hall remixes
or were UK imports to begin with.
With regards to your measurements though, lots of my vinyl is of
different construction. Some are very thick, heavy, and
brittle. Others are thin, floppy and seem to be able to be bent
strongly without cracking. Looking at and holding these albums,
they have slightly different lip edges which could easily account for 3mm.
I'd be curious to take a larger measurement sampling. But
considering the LP (the 33 1/2 rpm album, 12 inch) was designed by
an American company, I don't doubt it was designed to inches.
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: [USMA:44320] Records
From: Jeremiah MacGregor <jeremiahmacgre...@rocketmail..com>
Date: Fri, April 03, 2009 8:38 pm
To: "U.S. Metric Association" <usma@colostate.edu>
It seems the 45 min^-1 record is 60 years old.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/shared/spl/hi/picture_gallery/08/business_the_seven_inch_single/html/1.stm
This is one of those remnants that extremists get excited over
because the record mentioned is called by an inch name, even though
it is incorrect.
In the US we never called records by their inch size. We always
called them by their speed.
We had the 45 min^-1 singles, 33-1/3 long playing and the older 78
min^-1. Everyone knows them simply as 45s, 33s and 78s. Never anthing else.
Yet extremists falsely claim these to be inch based because they
were falsely given inch names.
I happen to have a sample of all three record types and I can
honestly state that none are to the measurements the extremists drool over.
My 45s are 175 mm. 7 inches is 178 mm. Thus the records are 3 mm
shorter then their inch name claim.
My 33s are 302 mm. 12 inches is 305 mm... Thus the records are 3
mm shorter then their inch name claim.
My 78s are 250 mm. 10 inches is 254 mm. Thus the records are 4 mm
shorter then their inch name claim.
I believe that outside the US 33s are 300 mm exactly. Some of you
on this list who do not come from the US may be able to check their
record collection and verify the diameters.
The 17.5 cm disc was originally designed by Emile Berliner of
Germany and he chose the metric size as standard and the inch sizes
were the closes the English could come up with, but even with inch
names they never changed the sizes Berliner chose to the rounded
inch sizes they named them.
Berliner arranged for the first gramophones to be made in Europe
during the trip to Germany 1889-90. According to Raymond Wile, "It
was in Germany that the first commercial beginnings of the
gramophone occurred - presumably in July 1890. The toy makers Kammer
and Reinhardt in Waltershausen (Thuringia) began to market small
hand-propelled gramophones and a talking-doll. For the doll, a small
8 centimeter disc was prepared, and for the regular machine a 12.5
centimeter disc. The records were available in three substances
during the period they were marketed. Without adequate documentation
it is impossible to determine if the copies made in hard rubber or
celluloid were contemporaneous, or which substances had precedence.
For an additional price, zinc discs also were available. The records
were produced by two companies, one known solely by the initials
GFKC, the other was the Rhenische Gummi und Celluloid Fabrik Werkes
of Necharan, Mannheim. The machines and records also were imported
into England, notably by J. Lewis Young, but were available for only
a few years in both countries" (Wile 1990 p. 16). As a result,
Berliner's efforts led to the establishment of Deutsche Grammophon
Gesellschaft (DGG, later to become PolyGram).
http://history.sandiego..edu/gen/recording/berliner.html
Thus despite the corrupted names, vinly records are a true metric invention.
Jerry
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