My fathre is of German-Swiss heritage. From him, a teacher of physics and chemistry, I learned to pronounce *meter* phonetically, as in German. My mothre is of English heritage. She taught English but also wrote meter. My brothre taught mathematics at West Point (another USMA) also wrote meter.
Does Pat prefer father, mother, and brother or fathre, mothre, and brothre? ---- Original message ---- >Date: Fri, 1 Jul 2011 14:57:36 -0700 (PDT) >From: "John M. Steele" <jmsteele9...@sbcglobal.net> >Subject: [USMA:50802] Re: Metres Versus Meters when Programming >To: "U.S. Metric Association" <usma@colostate.edu> > > I think you have to judge those words in the > environment of 1789. We were a dinky, weak country > that had just won its independence from the British > Empire after a long and costly war. It isn't a very > becoming attitude for a superpower, but we weren't > one then. > > Anyway, it is true that not every spelling reform > was accepted. However, those that were are now > deeply ingrained. There is not a snowball's chance > in hell that we will change a lot of "er" endings > back to "re", or z to s, or s to c, or any of the > more common differences. I assume the UK won't > change to our spelling either, so it is easier to > just accept the differences. I would propose that > we table the discussion, except the verb "to table" > has diametrically opposite meanings in US and UK > English. :) > > Speaking of "diameter," why isn't it "diametre" in > the UK? > > ------------------------------------------------ > > From: Pat Naughtin > <pat.naugh...@metricationmatters.com> > To: U.S. Metric Association <usma@colostate.edu> > Cc: U.S. Metric Association <usma@colostate.edu> > Sent: Fri, July 1, 2011 5:40:43 PM > Subject: [USMA:50801] Re: Metres Versus Meters when > Programming > Dear Jim, > You are quite right to point out that I was a bit > rough on Noah Webster. > But he did write the following in An Essay on the > Necessity, Advantages, and Practicality of Reforming > the Mode of Spelling (1789): > But a capital advantage of this reform in these > states would be, that it would make a difference > between the English orthography and the American. > This will startle those who have not attended to the > subject; but I am confident that such an event is an > object of vast political consequence. > For, the alteration, however small, would encourage > the publication of books in our own country. It > would render it, in some measure, necessary that all > books should be printed in America. The English > would never copy our orthography for their own use; > and consequently the same impressions of books would > not answer for both countries. The inhabitants of > the present generation would read the English > impressions; but posterity, being taught a different > spelling, would prefer the American orthography. > Cheers, > Pat Naughtin > Geelong, Australia > On 2011/07/01, at 08:59 , James Frysinger wrote: > > Dear Pat, > > I don't suppose you would describe your viewpoints > here as being more ethnocentric than objective, > would you? "Corrupt"? "Own commercial interests"? > "Paranoia"? Grin. > > Jim > > -- > James R. Frysinger > 632 Stony Point Mountain Road > Doyle, TN 38559-3030 > > (C) 931.212.0267 > (H) 931.657.3107 > (F) 931.657.3108 > > On 2011-06-30 16:55, Pat Naughtin wrote: > > Dear Martin, > > Other than the article you have already referred > to at: > > http://www.metricationmatters.com/docs/Spelling_metre_or_meter.pdf > I > > don't think that I can help you. When Noah > Webster decided to corrupt > > the spelling of metre in the 1700s and early > 1800s, he did so for his > > own commercial reasons as well as to meet the > paranoia of the USA at > > that time. > > Webster's success with his deception is now so > widespread that it has > > become part of the culture of the USA and, for > over 200 years, it > > restricted the population of the USA from > accessing many valuable > > references from all other English speaking > nations — no matter how > > superior these "/foreign/" books might be. It > was only a little lie at > > the time but it has grown mightily. > > I hope you don't mind but I have copied your > email on to the USMA > > maillist for their comments — their thoughts > are always valuable. > > Cheers, > > Pat Naughtin > > Geelong, Australia > > On 2011/07/01, at 04:02 , Martin Bromley wrote: > > Hello Pat, > > My company runs a site at > http://www.degreedays.net/ that generates a > > specialist type of temperature data called > degree days. We're in the > > process of building an API (Application > Programming Interface), which > > will give other programmers a way to get data > out of our system > > without doing it manually through the website > interface. > > In our API we need to give programmers access > to several measurements > > of distance, like the elevation of a weather > station above sea level. > > I had decided that we should use the metres > unit for these > > measurements. That was an easy decision. > > What was not such an easy decision was > deciding whether to spell it > > "metres" or "meters"... > > I'm guessing you're not a programmer so I > shall give you just a little > > background. If we use "metres" in our API, > we're forcing all > > programmers that use our API to type "metres" > in various places > > throughout their code. And the thing with > programming is that US > > spellings are the norm. Programmers around the > world are used to > > typing color instead of colour and center > instead of centre. It's like > > a standard of sorts. > > A couple of links that discuss this, for if > you're interested: > > http://stackoverflow.com/questions/157807/gb-english-or-us-english > > http://drabasablog.net/archives/post-133.html > > So the en_US convention for programming would > encourage us to use > > "meters" in our API (which is essentially a > domain-specific language > > for programmers). And that is tempting. > > But we are providing a scientific kind of > data, so it seems to me that > > it's important to be scientific in our > measurements. And "meters" just > > doesn't feel scientific. > > I came across your excellent PDF on the > metres/meters debate and I > > found it very useful. It helped give me the > confidence to make the > > decision to settle on "metres", shunning the > en_US convention for > > software programs. > > Many thanks for putting that information > together and writing it in > > such a compelling way. > > Fingers crossed we don't change our mind > tomorrow or get shouted at by > > angry Americans after we launch this API and > they're wondering why on > > earth we spelt meters "wrong". > > Please don't feel the need to reply to this... > Through running our > > Degree Days.net site I know what it's like > when random strangers email > > one long tales out of the blue, when one > doesn't really have time to > > respond. I just wanted to say thanks. > > Best regards, > > Martin Bromley > > http://www.degreedays.net/ > > Pat Naughtin LCAMS > > Author of the ebook, Metrication Leaders Guide, > see > > http://metricationmatters.com/MetricationLeadersGuideInfo.html > > Hear Pat speak at: > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_lshRAPvPZY > > PO Box 305 Belmont 3216, > > Geelong, Australia > > Phone: 61 3 5241 2008 > > Metric system consultant, writer, and speaker, > Pat Naughtin, has helped > > thousands of people and hundreds of companies > upgrade to the modern > > metric system smoothly, quickly, and so > economically that they now save > > thousands each year when buying, processing, or > selling for their > > businesses. Pat provides services and resources > for many different > > trades, crafts, and professions for commercial, > industrial and > > government metrication leaders in Asia, Europe, > and in the USA. Pat's > > clients include the Australian Government, > Google, NASA, NIST, and the > > metric associations of Canada, the UK, and the > USA. See > > http://www.metricationmatters.com for more > metrication information, > > contact Pat at > pat.naugh...@metricationmatters.com or to get > the free > > 'Metrication matters' newsletter go to: > > http://www.metricationmatters.com/newsletter to > subscribe. > > Pat Naughtin LCAMS > Author of the ebook, Metrication Leaders Guide, see > http://metricationmatters.com/MetricationLeadersGuideInfo.html > Hear Pat speak > at: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_lshRAPvPZY > PO Box 305 Belmont 3216, > Geelong, Australia > Phone: 61 3 5241 2008 > > Metric system consultant, writer, and speaker, Pat > Naughtin, has helped thousands of people and > hundreds of companies upgrade to the modern metric > system smoothly, quickly, and so economically that > they now save thousands each year when buying, > processing, or selling for their businesses. Pat > provides services and resources for many different > trades, crafts, and professions for commercial, > industrial and government metrication leaders in > Asia, Europe, and in the USA. Pat's clients include > the Australian Government, Google, NASA, NIST, > and the metric associations of Canada, the UK, and > the USA. See http://www.metricationmatters.com for > more metrication information, contact Pat > at pat.naugh...@metricationmatters.com or to get the > free 'Metrication matters' newsletter go > to: http://www.metricationmatters.com/newsletter to > subscribe.
