On Mon, 2003-09-15 at 13:17, Bryan Murdock wrote: > On Mon, 2003-09-15 at 11:45, Stuart Jansen wrote: > > Microsoft's argument is double talk, and it is unfortunate that you've > > been taken in by it.
This debate is good and healthy. I find it interesting. I know you didin't intend for this to be a debate over the GPL itself, but you have correctly pointed out that the GPL embodies RMS's ideals. > > Hey now, let's not start with the personal insults ;) I just wanted to > clarify that the GPL does provide rms with a lot of control over his > code, which translates to less freedom for me. You seem to have agreed > with me there. I do agree that the GPL does grant me a million times > more freedom than most any other software license out there. I love > Free software. I just worry when all this talk about "freedom" gets > cloudy and leads to things like "pro-choice" arguments for abortion and > the like, because I agree with you 100% that "My Freedom limits yours." First off, the GPL is about your code too, not just RMS's code. Free software does protect the developer against code theft, but it does not grant much control to the developer over his code, except to guarrantee that it will always be free and open and as a developer you can take it back and still use it. Closed-source licenses do give the code writer all rights and control, except for what he delegates. With the GPL, the code writers still own the copyright and can still relicense the code however they want. Developers can even sell their software (except that this is rarely useful). The GPL is also intended to protect the freedom of the end user to "use" the software. In fact, it is the only license I know of that says you don't have to agree to the license to use the software. The license is only applies to you if you wish to use the source code to extend or otherwise develop it. In this sense too GPL software is freer than any proprietary license out there. (The BSD license can be considered free, but since it doesn't guarranty that the end user will perpetuate rights that he received with his copy of the source code to others, then this freedom ends there.) > > I'm impressed when you point out that rms does not support government > mandated use of the GPL. That tells me that he does want to give people > a choice, some freedom. Is it a false rumor then that he admonishes > that all software should morally use the GPL? I guess I should have > been more careful when I used that as a point in my argument, not > knowing fully the validity of the statement. This whole idea of "choice," is something Microsoft is using to argue to get goverments to disregard the choice of using free software and choose theirs. Your arguments sound more like pro-choice arguments than the pro-rms crowd (this is not intended to sound like a personal insult). Not to insinuate anything, and what I'm about to say doesn't directly apply, but there is someone out there that I know of that desires to completely take away our freedom of choice while at the same time promoting his ways by claiming that it's a more free way. Do anything you want, etc. In a way, I see Microsoft's "Choice" argument in this light. For a good read of how free software makes you free, see that letter that the Peruvian congressman wrote to Microsoft. He makes these points way better than I. As for ultimately whether closed or open source is the "moral" choice, well, all I ask is who really is the source of all Intellectual Property and for what purpose is it given? I'm talking altruisticly here. Michael > > Thank you, Stuart and others, for your clarifying points in this most > philosophical and mind expanding discusson. In the future just hold the > personal Microsoft related insults, no matter how well it rounds out and > concludes your email :) > > Bryan > > > ____________________ > BYU Unix Users Group > http://uug.byu.edu/ > ___________________________________________________________________ > List Info: http://uug.byu.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/uug-list -- Michael L Torrie <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> ____________________ BYU Unix Users Group http://uug.byu.edu/ ___________________________________________________________________ List Info: http://uug.byu.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/uug-list
