Dan, I'm sorry that you misunderstood my comments, but you have. I'm not against beginners and I never look down upon them or their best efforts. I've taught beginner's classes. When students don't give it their best effort, I offer constructive criticism- it's my job. And I've seen beginners tie very "worthy" flies that I'd be happy to have and fish with. In fact I'm amazed by the ties of some of the beginning tiers on this list, and I'm collecting their flies while I can get them. What I don't think is fair is less than the best effort in a swap- by tiers of any level, and that goes for me, too. If I don't have time to give it my best shot for what the theme is, I won't enter.
Believe me, my comments are not automatically the consensus of the group, and my ideas here may be completely overturned. I'm just airing my views and seeing how others feel. I don't think you should quit just because of me and what I said. I believe everyone needs to grow, myself included, and I also believe it takes personal effort to grow. My comment was based on the comment about the perps swap box and by comments made to me in the past about the quality of flies in swaps. You bring up money here, and we're not talking about money, or I'd never be in a swap. I'm in swaps because I want to see what others are doing and how new ideas in fly tying are being applied, and to share my ideas with them. Everyone's TIME is valuable, and it takes time and a conscientious effort on everyone's part to tie up NICE flies for a swap- I didn't say EQUAL. What I'm talking about is effort, and any level of tier can put out reasonable effort and tie nice, simple flies. And I've seen beginning and intermediate tiers expend themselves and tie up some flies worthy of being in the magazines. We're not talking 'elite flies' or 'show flies', but just plain old fishing flies. Example: I'm talking about a 'favorites fly swap' and one tier spending the time to tie beautiful stimulators at a half-hour or more each (as an example) and another not taking any time and sending in San Juan Worms, taking a minute each (as an example). The comments about the perps box and the contents is a good example. The 'throw-away' flies may have been just that, or maybe they were from a beginner. It can't be said- unless it was the rusted one with the tippet attached. But if you were the next guy on the list and the initial box was filled with great new patterns with new materials, and you were really looking forward to the experience and learning, yet by the time it got to you it was full of San Juan Worms, would you feel disappointed? So to put it all in a nutshell, I'm not against beginners- I'm against a lack of effort. And I think that's fair. I tie like I tie because I enjoy it and I've put the effort into it- it doesn't come free. Like I tell my students- you get out of it what you put into it. I don't want you to leave the list, and my comments were not directed at beginners. DonO ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dan Harriman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: [VFB] Perpetual Swap / to All Swappers > Excuse me?? This is what the folks on this list think of beginners?
