Thanks for drawing attention to the positives of the group, all too easy to not mention things that are ok, but praises should be sung so fir play :)
Compared to many other groups Ive knows, the elitist label is indeed bullshit. Ive already said why I dont think its true, and the few areas where maybe theres something in it, and should be looked into further. It would be a tad melodramatic to say that a berlin-wall like structure exists between 'oldschool videobloggers' and youtubers, but all the same there are some gaps and I appluad those whove posted very recently to discuss the idea of promoting videoblogweek on youtube, bingo! Im not sure how it will go down with people there but hopefully someone has the balls to try. As for me, well Hodders, Im not exactly known for being much of a do-er. So I may well be annoying if Im seen to be forever standing at the sideline barking instructions at those who are actually doing stuff and really dont need me telling them how to think & act. What others have been able to achieve is even more amazing to me because I dont think I could come anywhere close to that stuff, so I am often in awe. But I mostly talk a lot when Im being negative so that is overlooked. My points in this case were really to try to have a conversation about what else could be done, specifically in terms of reaching out to people who have not been touched at all by the last 2.5 years. I love the node's and Im curious how active they are simply because they dont get talked about so much here these days. I suppose all the people that tried hard to get the mainstream media to write articles about vlogging in the past, gave interviews etc, have done a lot to raise awareness. And again this used to be talked about a little more in the past, when it was new, so Im not sure to what extent it continues today. Maybe its easier for mainstream presss to be lazy now because they can talk about vlogging using more familar story geners/formulas - eg shows that get their creators picked up by big media, the business success of youtube, etc? I quite liked it when Time said the person of the year waas 'you' but it seemed to get quite a lot of stick, some said it was a copout! As for me I'll just have to hope an existing youtuber can spread the videoblogweek word, cos Ive got to learn to help myself before I can really try to encourage others to vlog. Cheers Steve Elbows --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, "ryanne hodson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > i think the elitist label is bullshit. > > i think this list is great > people are welcome to rant and rave > and get to the nitty gritty of online video > hell meiser and watkins post novels every day... > > and it's insane how much people help each other tirelessly on this list > to figure out tech stuff. > > i've been on other lists of videomakers > and people aren't nearly as helpful as on this list. > usually the answers/attitudes are "just google it" > or "go find it on a message board" > > so i'd like to sing the praises of this group. > > after visiting the cold harsh lists of other video groups > i gladly return to the videoblogging list for a passionate rant > and friendly fisticuffs daily. (ok it's more than that) > > as for helping people > watkins are you holding any events? > are you getting people to videoblog? > > i think the list you stated > is a good example of what people in this community are capable and willing > to create > and i think that's pretty fucking amazing. > and if you don't think that's enough > it's up to you (and anyone really) > to do something about it. > > i love the videoblogging list > no matter how crazy it can get. > > -ryanne > > On 24 Mar 2007 16:55:12 -0700, Steve Watkins <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > Cheers, although I dont actually think that stuff was a problem or > > really a reflection of any problems the group may have. I spend so > > much time here stating my opinions, that I cant really complain if > > anybody else ever states an opinion about me. > > > > I think its quite normal that people would maybe treat my opinions on > > vlogging differently if I actually vlogged a lot and they could 'see > > me' more. If I had ever had a sucessful web business then my opinions > > on other businesses might be taken differently by some, etc etc. And I > > can see why it might seem weird to spend so much time on a blogging > > group and reading and whining my opinions, when Im not blogging, > > vlogging or doing a business or even having all that much time to > > watch video. > > > > Anyways, I have been someone who moaned here and there about elitism > > or some other aspects of this group, but Ive also been fairly negative > > about possible alternatives. For me the group is healthy if opinions > > are diverse, so I wouldnt mind a few elitist comments here and there > > as it would reflect the fact there must be someone somewher who holds > > such views. Just so long as the whole group doesnt suffer from such > > things. Same with clique stuff, I think there may have been some > > tendencies towards this but it was never the whole group, it was > > clumps of people or even just one person using wording that might have > > sounded elitist, and maybe was or wasnt, it never usually got explored > > in depth, possibly because the label 'elitist' sounds negative so not > > many people think they are guilty of that. > > > > Some of the things that might put newcomers off this group are > > accidental or systemic, or chance. For example there are still threads > > people post that never get responded to. If its someone like me > > posting then it doesnt really matter because I post a lot, but a > > lurker or newbie who posts and is then largely or completely > > unresponded to, may suffer more as a consquence. Generally this isnt a > > huge problem and someoneusually steps up to the plate, or if there is > > silence then it may be for a good reason, or there is jsut too much > > email, but thats the sort of thing I think could be improved on by > > improving systems rather than it being a case of the wrong people > > being here. > > > > So I wouldnt suggest stating another group unless it had some things > > at its core that would make it pretty fundamentally different to this > > group. I dont know quite what this means in practice, but for example > > if the conversations were mostly video then it would feel different. > > > > I mean I wouldnt know if its possible to make the group either more or > > less like it was in the past. Time has moved on, various people have > > various reasons for not posting much to this group, their own personal > > vlog voyage may have moved on. Also not everyone is as willing to > > endlessly repeat themselves as I am, so once they've said everything > > they could think to say here, and the honeymoon burst of initial > > energy has worn off, things change. > > > > Also I suspect that over time various events, arguments, watershed > > moments in this group, make some people wary of bringing up certain > > subjects. The virtual presence of certain strong characters or > > opinions can leave its mark. Over the years of being online, Ive > > occasionally got paranoid in various communities (usually forums) ive > > been in, that my words may be doing more harm than good, which leads > > to me shutting up for months to see if its a better place without me. > > And over the years in this group I have sometimes questioned m worth > > which usually elicits enough replies to make me stick around, but then > > I feel guilty about email traffic being generated arounf the topic of > > me, when I dont really think theres anything very interesting to talk > > about me, which is one of the many reasons Ive struggled to vlog. I > > dont find my life to be all that interesting so I dont want to vlog > > it. On the otherhand I clearly think enough of my own opinions to post > > them endlessly on the web. > > > > As for this group or setting up other groups, you could compare here > > to youtube in a funny sort of way. Both have the upper hand on upstart > > rivals due to having enough users to create a sustained flow on > > content, and both were created long enough ago that the broad topic of > > videoblogging could be encompassed within one group/service. Now years > > have passed and youtube and this group are the 'established players' > > in their respective fields. Upstarts need to either find a niche or do > > it so much better and get lucky/clever enough to gain a critical mass > > of users. Or the established players decline over time until they are > > devoured. > > > > If I miss anything, its lots of specific people who used to say more > > here, and dont seem to say so much these days. But I dont know what it > > would take to get those voices back, dont think there is a magic > > formula or any one cause or person we can attribute to their relative > > silence :( > > > > Well that took ages to write and probably served no useful purpose, > > oops. Im still hoping for alternative ways of this group evolving, but > > Im not sure if a community can be transplanted in such a way. Not that > > it ever was one coherent community, or ever will be, whilst at the > > same time there are already people connected to eachother through this > > group that would continue to keep these relationships regardless of > > what happens to this group. > > > > Of all the things Ive said in this group of late that havent been > > responded to, the most depressing for me was the stuff about how to > > reach out to people who have no idea about this group or the word > > vlogging or maybe even youtube. I love the latest freevlog and all the > > efforts I heard about in the past with node's, and the upcoming super > > happy vlog house stuff, and there is surely rich territory to be > > farmed by vloggers collaborating more, but is there anything else > > people in this group could do to firmly trample any 'elitist' > > labeling, and reach out to the masses who have so far been untouched > > by the vlogging phenomenon? > > > > Cheers > > > > Steve Elbows > > > > --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com <videoblogging%40yahoogroups.com>, > > "Harold Johnson" > > <harold.johnson@> wrote: > > > > > > Great post, Steve -- thanks for your feedback. > > > > > > Yeah, it kind of seemed to me that a couple of the attendees of that > > > videoconference/chat were a bit nonplussed as to why you didn't post > > > video...To me, it's a bit of elitism on their part, which I've > > noticed on > > > this list quite a bit. Seems that some members of this group, > > individually, > > > "don't take kindly to strangers"... > > > > > > ...which is itself all the stranger (pun intended, and the correct > > phrase > > > would actually be "more strange") since you've been a member of this > > list > > > for some time and aren't exactly a "stranger" anymore... > > > > > > There are alot of nice/seemingly nice folks on this list, with good > > > intentions. But I also sense a bit of clique-ishness, which has > > solidified > > > more and more over the past year. Time to start up a new list, perhaps, > > > something fresh and more open to all... > > > > > > Harold > > > still the Podcaster; > > > lost the domain > > > > > > On 3/12/07, Steve Watkins <steve@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Thanks for the tipoff, I watched about half an hour of it, hope > > I got > > > > all the relevent bits. > > > > > > > > Great aim, I might be remembering wrong but I think part of the > > > > original idea of vlogweek was to encourage others to vlog. Quite how > > > > to achieve this is another question, I dont really know how many > > > > lurkers are on this list that are potential vloggers who havent > > > > managed it yet. As someone mentioned in the chat, youtube (and > > > > similar) certainly lowered the ba to being able to put video online. > > > > And Im not sure I can imagine too many vloggers going on youtube and > > > > promoting this idea of videoblog week. I dunno, its something id like > > > > to see, but Im really still unsure of the nature of any seperation > > > > that does exist between the 2 groups. Would vlogweek seem silly to > > > > some youtubers? Are there people who make videos but dont like the > > > > term blog or think of themselves as bloggers? Scratches head and > > > > wonders if youtubers will spontaneously do something similar > > > > themselves, totally independently, at some unknown time. Or maybe not, > > > > maybe every day is vlogday in youtube land. > > > > > > > > Anyway I never really helped with any education/awareness projects > > > > myself, Im unaware of how active the nodes are these days. Off the top > > > > of my head, if you want to make vlogweek alla bout getting new people > > > > to start, some people have to go and promote the week in advance, in > > > > places where people arent so aware of this thing, to focus all efforts > > > > here or even youtube is preaching to the converted a bit. I suppose Id > > > > also love to know some thoughts from any people who used to vlog and > > > > have now stopped for whatever reason, and wheterh vlogweek can help > > > > focus them to return, or just learn what put them off. > > > > > > > > I was mentioned in the chat as somone who doesnt vlog, and I agree > > > > that I was not a good example of the people you are probably trying to > > > > reach. Frankly it pains me that anybody really cares whether I am > > > > vlogging, I did make 3 or 4 videos years ago, maybe it was even for a > > > > vlog-week, I cant remember. One was me saying hello, one was fireant > > > > being shown on a TV monitor (via tv out from graphics card on a pc) > > > > and one was of NASAs world-wind which is an app like google earth. If > > > > I can get myself sorted to make the sorts of vlogs I want to, then I > > > > shall vlog during vlogweek. > > > > > > > > Funnily enough that stuff Enric was playing with in the chat, animated > > > > avatar stuff, is something I thought might help me or anybody else > > > > that suffers from shyness or self-image issues or something, to vlog. > > > > I have pondered for some years as to whether such things built into > > > > mobile phones, could be a saviour of the failed 'video phonecall', > > > > maybe people dont want to be seen like that but wouldnt mind hiding > > > > behind an avatar if it as ggood enough, and was based on live camera > > > > input for facial gestures etc. Its taking a long time for any system > > > > good enough to emerge on the desktop let alone the PC. > > > > > > > > Collaboration also came up and Im fascinated by the subject but I'll > > > > start a new thread on that. > > > > > > > > Cheers > > > > > > > > Steve Elbows > > > > --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com <videoblogging%40yahoogroups.com> > > <videoblogging%40yahoogroups.com>, " > > > > Harold Johnson" > > > > > > > > <harold.johnson@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Hey clowns, > > > > > > > > > > We had a rather excellent videoconference the other day, especially > > > > (in my > > > > > opinion) when we begun talking about how we might be able to help > > > > others to > > > > > begin videoblogging during the upcoming Videoblogging Week 2007: > > > > > > > > > > > > http://somethingthathappened.com/2007/03/today-i-attended-another.html > > > > > > > > > > Follow the link for more links; jump into the Replay of the > > > > videoconference > > > > > and jump to 18:51 in the recording to see the topic we discussed. > > > > > Essentially, I was thinking that we could come up with a way to > > assist > > > > > others during our upcoming event. > > > > > > > > > > Harold > > > > > http://videoharold.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > Pixelodeon-June 9th & 10th > American Film Institute (AFI) LA, CA > From the Computer Screen to the Big Screen > http://pixelodeonfest.com/ > -- > Author of Secrets of Videoblogging ---->http://tinyurl.com/me4vs > Me ----> http://RyanEdit.com, http://RyanIsHungry.com > Educate ----> http://FreeVlog.org, http://Node101.org > Community Capitalism----> http://HaveMoneyWillVlog.com > iChat/AIM ----> VideoRodeo > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >
