No - I don't think odd at all - the composr would simply be pointing
the exotic.
No doubt like many, I would like to think this was for solo guitar
(with prhps a bass instrument) but it's important to avoid wishful
thinking clouding judgement. I'd still like to see what appears
elsewhere in the MS before jumping to conclusions
MH
--- On Sun, 10/5/09, Monica Hall <mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:
From: Monica Hall <mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [VIHUELA] Re: [VIHUELA] Haendel - Cantata Spagnuola
To: "Martyn Hodgson" <hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk>
Cc: "Vihuelalist" <vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu>
Date: Sunday, 10 May, 2009, 4:26 PM
Well - it would be rather odd to mention the guitar specifically if it
was only part of the continuo group rather than the obligato
instrument. The whole point about the piece is that it is a kind of
pastiche in the Spanish style - both the music and the way in which it
is notated.
Monica
----- Original Message -----
From: [1]Martyn Hodgson
To: [2]Monica Hall
Cc: [3]Vihuelalist
Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2009 8:10 AM
Subject: Re: [VIHUELA] Re: [VIHUELA] Haendel - Cantata Spagnuola
Indeed, hence why it's important to see the practice throughout this
MS. As already said, it may be that additional melodic instrumental
parts are not identified.
MH
--- On Sat, 9/5/09, Monica Hall <[4]mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:
From: Monica Hall <[5]mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [VIHUELA] Re: [VIHUELA] Haendel - Cantata Spagnuola
To: "Martyn Hodgson" <[6]hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk>
Cc: "Vihuelalist" <[7]vihu...@cs.dartmouth.edu>
Date: Saturday, 9 May, 2009, 4:33 PM
The title written at the top of the first page of the manuscript is
"Cantata
Spagnuola a voce sola e chitarra.". The guitar is the obligato
instrument.
There is no mention of flute or violin.
Monica
----- Original Message -----
From: "Martyn Hodgson" <[8]hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk>
To: <[9]vihu...@cs.dartmouth.edu>; "Mjos & Larson"
<[10]rockype...@earthlink.net>
Sent: Saturday, May 09, 2009 9:04 AM
Subject: [VIHUELA] Re: [VIHUELA] Haendel - Cantata Spagnuola
>
>
> Without having seen the original MS it's difficult to be sure if
> Chrysander's edition is wholly accurate, certainly his naming the
two
> upper staves of the system as for guitar seems editorial (since he
> places the chittara in brackets). It would also be revealing to see
if
> this MS usually identifies a particular instrument on the top line
or
> if it was assumed (a violin, oboe or flute perhaps). Further, if
the
> upper line is played an octave down (as you rightly suggest more in
the
> period guitar tessitura) it crosses the bass line (eg bar 2).
>
> I suggest it more likely that the composer simply expected the
guitar
> to play along as continuo (hence second line down duplicating the
bass
> stave) and that a violin, or flute or oboe played the melodic upper
> line. the bass then played by cello with/without keyboard.
>
> MH
>
> --- On Sat, 9/5/09, Mjos & Larson <[11]rockype...@earthlink.net>
wrote:
>
> From: Mjos & Larson <[12]rockype...@earthlink.net>
> Subject: [VIHUELA] Haendel - Cantata Spagnuola
> To: [13]vihu...@cs.dartmouth.edu
> Date: Saturday, 9 May, 2009, 7:07 AM
>
> I have been thinking to ask this group for ideas and suggestions on
> approaching Haendel's "No se emendera jamas " (Cantata Spagnuola a
voce
> sola e Chitarra) for some time.
> The Chrysander edition is online at:
> [1][14]http://daten.digitale-sammlungen.de/~db/0001/bsb00016889/ima
ges/inde
> x.html?id=00016889&fip=66.41.254.100&no=5&seite=44
> Is it safe to assume it was written for a standard baroque guitar
in E?
> I have no idea of the original source, but given the range of the
part
> marked "Chitarra" I would think to play the melody down an octave
from
> Chrysander's G-clef notation, which would take the melody from the
> fifth fret first string down to the second fret on the fourth
course.
> This strikes me as a bit low for playing a solo part above the
> continuo.
> The bass notes only seem just to be a continuo line to harmonize.
> How might members of the group have performed this, and with what
> instrumental forces? Theorbo continuo only, or harpsichord? Bass
viol
> only?
> Or do do we take the subtitle literally that it is only voice and
> guitar? Then we have a bit of a range problem with the written bass
> line and upper part (assuming my octave transposition of the upper
> voice).
> Does someone have knowledge of the original notation to be able to
> comment on the faithfulness Chysander's edition? He claims it is
> faithful here:
> [2][15]http://daten.digitale-sammlungen.de/~db/0001/bsb00016889/ima
ges/inde
> x.html?seite=7
> -- R
> To get on or off this list see list information at
> [3][16]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
>
> --
>
> References
>
> 1.
>
[17]http://daten.digitale-sammlungen.de/~db/0001/bsb00016889/images/ind
ex.html?id=00016889&fip=66.41.254.100&no=5&seite=44
> 2.
>
[18]http://daten.digitale-sammlungen.de/~db/0001/bsb00016889/images/ind
ex.html?seite=7
> 3. [19]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
>
--
References
1. http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk
2. http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk
3. http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=vihu...@cs.dartmouth.edu
4. http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk
5. http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk
6. http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk
7. http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=vihu...@cs.dartmouth.edu
8. http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk
9. http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=vihu...@cs.dartmouth.edu
10. http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=rockype...@earthlink.net
11. http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=rockype...@earthlink.net
12. http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=rockype...@earthlink.net
13. http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=vihu...@cs.dartmouth.edu
14. http://daten.digitale-sammlungen.de/~db/0001/bsb00016889/images/inde
15. http://daten.digitale-sammlungen.de/~db/0001/bsb00016889/images/inde
16. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
17.
http://daten.digitale-sammlungen.de/~db/0001/bsb00016889/images/index.html?id=00016889&fip=66.41.254.100&no=5&seite=44
18.
http://daten.digitale-sammlungen.de/~db/0001/bsb00016889/images/index.html?seite=7
19. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
