--- On Sun, 10/5/09, Monica Hall <mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:
From: Monica Hall <mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk> Subject: Re: [VIHUELA] Re: [VIHUELA] Haendel - Cantata Spagnuola To: "Martyn Hodgson" <hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk> Cc: "Vihuelalist" <vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu> Date: Sunday, 10 May, 2009, 4:52 PM Well - I am not going to offer to scan the whole thing but I did look at the Chrysander version and he seems to have reproduced the manuscript faithfully if you want to check. Monica ----- Original Message ----- From: [1]Martyn Hodgson To: [2]Monica Hall Cc: [3]Vihuelalist Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2009 4:35 PM Subject: Re: [VIHUELA] Re: [VIHUELA] Haendel - Cantata Spagnuola No - I don't think odd at all - the composr would simply be pointing the exotic. No doubt like many, I would like to think this was for solo guitar (with prhps a bass instrument) but it's important to avoid wishful thinking clouding judgement. I'd still like to see what appears elsewhere in the MS before jumping to conclusions MH --- On Sun, 10/5/09, Monica Hall <[4]mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk> wrote: From: Monica Hall <[5]mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk> Subject: Re: [VIHUELA] Re: [VIHUELA] Haendel - Cantata Spagnuola To: "Martyn Hodgson" <hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk> Cc: "Vihuelalist" <vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu> Date: Sunday, 10 May, 2009, 4:26 PM Well - it would be rather odd to mention the guitar specifically if it was only part of the continuo group rather than the obligato instrument. The whole point about the piece is that it is a kind of pastiche in the Spanish style - both the music and the way in which it is notated. Monica ----- Original Message ----- From: [6]Martyn Hodgson To: [7]Monica Hall Cc: [8]Vihuelalist Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2009 8:10 AM Subject: Re: [VIHUELA] Re: [VIHUELA] Haendel - Cantata Spagnuola Indeed, hence why it's important to see the practice throughout this MS. As already said, it may be that additional melodic instrumental parts are not identified. MH --- On Sat, 9/5/09, Monica Hall <[9]mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk> wrote: From: Monica Hall <[10]mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk> Subject: Re: [VIHUELA] Re: [VIHUELA] Haendel - Cantata Spagnuola To: "Martyn Hodgson" <[11]hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk> Cc: "Vihuelalist" <[12]vihu...@cs.dartmouth.edu> Date: Saturday, 9 May, 2009, 4:33 PM The title written at the top of the first page of the manuscript is "Cantata Spagnuola a voce sola e chitarra.". The guitar is the obligato instrument. There is no mention of flute or violin. Monica ----- Original Message ----- From: "Martyn Hodgson" <[13]hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk> To: <[14]vihu...@cs.dartmouth.edu>; "Mjos & Larson" <[15]rockype...@earthlink.net> Sent: Saturday, May 09, 2009 9:04 AM Subject: [VIHUELA] Re: [VIHUELA] Haendel - Cantata Spagnuola > > > Without having seen the original MS it's difficult to be sure if > Chrysander's edition is wholly accurate, certainly his naming the two > upper staves of the system as for guitar seems editorial (since he > places the chittara in brackets). It would also be revealing to see if > this MS usually identifies a particular instrument on the top line or > if it was assumed (a violin, oboe or flute perhaps). Further, if the > upper line is played an octave down (as you rightly suggest more in the > period guitar tessitura) it crosses the bass line (eg bar 2). > > I suggest it more likely that the composer simply expected the guitar > to play along as continuo (hence second line down duplicating the bass > stave) and that a violin, or flute or oboe played the melodic upper > line. the bass then played by cello with/without keyboard. > > MH > > --- On Sat, 9/5/09, Mjos & Larson <[16]rockype...@earthlink.net> wrote: > > From: Mjos & Larson <[17]rockype...@earthlink.net> > Subject: [VIHUELA] Haendel - Cantata Spagnuola > To: [18]vihu...@cs.dartmouth.edu > Date: Saturday, 9 May, 2009, 7:07 AM > > I have been thinking to ask this group for ideas and suggestions on > approaching Haendel's "No se emendera jamas " (Cantata Spagnuola a voce > sola e Chitarra) for some time. > The Chrysander edition is online at: > [1][19]http://daten.digitale-sammlungen.de/~db/0001/bsb00016889/ima ges/inde > x.html?id=00016889&fip=66.41.254.100&no=5&seite=44 > Is it safe to assume it was written for a standard baroque guitar in E? > I have no idea of the original source, but given the range of the part > marked "Chitarra" I would think to play the melody down an octave from > Chrysander's G-clef notation, which would take the melody from the > fifth fret first string down to the second fret on the fourth course. > This strikes me as a bit low for playing a solo part above the > continuo. > The bass notes only seem just to be a continuo line to harmonize. > How might members of the group have performed this, and with what > instrumental forces? Theorbo continuo only, or harpsichord? Bass viol > only? > Or do do we take the subtitle literally that it is only voice and > guitar? Then we have a bit of a range problem with the written bass > line and upper part (assuming my octave transposition of the upper > voice). > Does someone have knowledge of the original notation to be able to > comment on the faithfulness Chysander's edition? He claims it is > faithful here: > [2][20]http://daten.digitale-sammlungen.de/~db/0001/bsb00016889/ima ges/inde > x.html?seite=7 > -- R > To get on or off this list see list information at > [3][21]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > > -- > > References > > 1. > [22]http://daten.digitale-sammlungen.de/~db/0001/bsb00016889/images/ind ex.html?id=00016889&fip=66.41.254.100&no=5&seite=44 > 2. > [23]http://daten.digitale-sammlungen.de/~db/0001/bsb00016889/images/ind ex.html?seite=7 > 3. [24]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > -- References 1. http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk 2. http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk 3. http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=vihu...@cs.dartmouth.edu 4. http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk 5. http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk 6. http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk 7. http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk 8. http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=vihu...@cs.dartmouth.edu 9. http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk 10. http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk 11. http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk 12. http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=vihu...@cs.dartmouth.edu 13. http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk 14. http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=vihu...@cs.dartmouth.edu 15. http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=rockype...@earthlink.net 16. http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=rockype...@earthlink.net 17. http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=rockype...@earthlink.net 18. http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=vihu...@cs.dartmouth.edu 19. http://daten.digitale-sammlungen.de/~db/0001/bsb00016889/images/inde 20. http://daten.digitale-sammlungen.de/~db/0001/bsb00016889/images/inde 21. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html 22. http://daten.digitale-sammlungen.de/~db/0001/bsb00016889/images/index.html?id=00016889&fip=66.41.254.100&no=5&seite=44 23. http://daten.digitale-sammlungen.de/~db/0001/bsb00016889/images/index.html?seite=7 24. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html