What you say is very interesting in a number of ways!
What you say about preferences for low basses being a present day
"prejudice" for a complete instrument hits the nail on the head. At
least two people I know claim categorically that the fact that Granata
has included music for chitarra atiorbata in his book proves that he
also intended that there should be low basses for the music for
standard 5-course guitar in the book too. This argument has always
seemed to lack any logic to me! After all we are talking about two
different instruments.
Looking through the music there are occasionally places where the open
courses would overlap with the stopped courses but this wouldn't
necessrily be a problem. One thing that is noticeable is that Granata
tends not to use the stopped 5th course very much.
On the other hand you can't place too much reliance on a drawing like
this one which may well not be accurate in respect of size etc. The
Stradivarius specification for stringing does indicate octave stringing
on the 4th and 5th courses. Would this matter if they overlap with
the basses?
A lot of unanswered questions here.
Monica
----- Original Message -----
From: [1]Martyn Hodgson
To: [2]Monica Hall
Cc: [3]Vihuelalist
Sent: Wednesday, June 03, 2009 3:38 PM
Subject: Re: [VIHUELA] Re: Image of chitarra atiorbata
On reflection I would veer to the side of octave high basses: purely
around the practical problem of obtaining anything approaching a decent
sound from low octave (gut) basses with such relatively short string
length.
For comparison, theorbo basses (which descending from A would be
identical pitch to low octave chitarra attiorbata basses) require a
string length typically from 150 to 170cm: in the representations of
c.a.'s I've seen the basses seem much shorter than this. I think any
preference these days for low basses might purely be a modern prejudice
for a 'complete' instrument...
Martyn
--- On Fri, 22/5/09, Monica Hall <mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:
From: Monica Hall <mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [VIHUELA] Re: Image of chitarra atiorbata
To: "Martyn Hodgson" <hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk>
Cc: "Vihuelalist" <vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu>
Date: Friday, 22 May, 2009, 5:57 PM
> Did any concencus emerge from the last time (6 months?+ ago) these
> instruments were discussed as to whether the basses were at the
lower
> octave (descending from a low octave strung 5th course - rather
like a
> theorbo) or the upper octave (descending from the higher re-entrant
> string)? If so I missed it.
I don't think we did reach any conclusion. the music in Granata does
seem
to suggest that the basses continue down from the lower octave of the
5th
course.
However in the Gallot ms the basses overlap with the 4th and 5th
courses
which suggests to me - for what it is worth that the 4th & 5th course
might
be re-entrant.
Monica
>
> MH
> --- On Thu, 21/5/09, Monica Hall <[4]mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:
>
> From: Monica Hall <[5]mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk>
> Subject: [VIHUELA] Re: Image of chitarra atiorbata
> To: "Stuart Walsh" <[6]s.wa...@ntlworld.com>
> Cc: "Vihuelalist" <[7]vihu...@cs.dartmouth.edu>
> Date: Thursday, 21 May, 2009, 9:39 PM
>
> But then the theorbo is the wrong way round. Someone else has
> suggested
> that the instruments are arranged like that deliberately to
complement
> one
> another.
> Monica
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Stuart Walsh" <[1][8]s.wa...@ntlworld.com>
> To: "Monica Hall" <[2][9]mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk>
> Sent: Thursday, May 21, 2009 6:41 PM
> Subject: Re: [VIHUELA] Re: Image of chitarra atiorbata
> >
> >> Gary has said it is Ok for me to forward this message to the
list.
> >>
> >> It is very interesting!
> >>
> >> Monica
> >>
> >>
> > I'm sure you can flip images yourself but anyway, here's the
image
> > flipped in Photoshop. Looks like seven pegs on the second pegbox.
> >
> >
> >
> > Stuart
> >
> >
> >
> >>> I know I've spurred some conversations with all of you in the
past
> >>> about the engraving in one of the two surviving copies of
Granata's
> >>> Op. 3 containing a chitarr atiorbata. I've received a digital
image
> >>> from Carpentras and I've temporarily placed it on my Web page
for
> you
> >>> to check:
> >>>
> >>>
[3][10]http://www.library.appstate.edu/music/guitar/1651granata.html
> >>>
> >>> It's the second image on the page . . .
> >>>
> >>> Odd that it's left-handed, but I assume that's just an
engraving
> >>> reversal; GBG was obviously right-handed. This is by far the
best
> >>> look I've had of the image (I'm double checking with them
currently
> >>> to see if it is OK to put it on the Web; they may ask for me to
> take
> >>> it down, but I hope not, since the transaction was entirely
free).
> >>>
> >>> Stephen: Does this even look like a technically feasible
> instrument??
> >>> It sure seems like alot of strings crammed onto a fairly small
> body.
> >>> (No, you'll be glad to hear, I'll not ask for you to make me
one!).
> >>>
> >>> Gary
> >>> --
> >>> Gary R. Boye, Ph.D.
> >>> Associate Professor and Music Librarian
> >>> Appalachian State University
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> To get on or off this list see list information at
> >> [4][11]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
> >>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------
----
> -
> >>
> >>
> >> No virus found in this incoming message.
> >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> >> Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.36/2126 - Release
Date:
> >> 05/21/09 06:22:00
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
>
> --
>
> References
>
> 1.
[12]http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=s.wa...@ntlworld.com
> 2.
[13]http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk
> 3.
[14]http://www.library.appstate.edu/music/guitar/1651granata.html
> 4. [15]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
>
--
References
1. mailto:hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk
2. mailto:mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk
3. mailto:vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu
4. http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk
5. http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk
6. http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=s.wa...@ntlworld.com
7. http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=vihu...@cs.dartmouth.edu
8. http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=s.wa...@ntlworld.com
9. http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk
10. http://www.library.appstate.edu/music/guitar/1651granata.html
11. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
12. http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=s.wa...@ntlworld.com
13. http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk
14. http://www.library.appstate.edu/music/guitar/1651granata.html
15. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
