Yes, it cld have been pitched higher but then, following the usual
'rule' that one tunes the highest pitched string as reasonably high as
it will go (in fact to help the bass register) ie keep the stress on
the highest string the same as on an ordinary guitar, all this would
do would be to require a smaller instrument overall ie including basses
where the problem of low stress leading to inharmonicity etc wld remain
the same -- if you see what I mean.
But I am pretty sure that, as you have also said, that we need to
regard the Cat as basically an exotic solo instrument rather than a BC
instrument. Tho' regarding the Gth - I think I recall a French 18thC
painting/engraving showing a female singer accompanying herself on one
- possibly quite good for the usual high female voice (esp if basses at
the higher octave) rather than the sombre theorbo..... I'll try and
find it - perhaps it was a Watteau sketch.
LATER
Had a look - can't find it. But I did see the various depictions of
lute shaped instruments with extended basses but only 5 courses on the
fingerboard eg Painting by Lancret (early 18thc) in the Louvre and
others.. Bob Spencer suggested (Early Music I think - years ago) that
these may have been, in fact, lute shaped guitars theorbe (based on a
17thC italian painting!). I don't think anything was settled about the
tuning of the basses tho - and thus we come full circle.
M
--- On Tue, 21/7/09, Monica Hall <mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:
From: Monica Hall <mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk>
Subject: [VIHUELA] Re: Chitarra atiorbata/Guitarre theorbee
To: "Martyn Hodgson" <hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk>
Cc: "Vihuelalist" <vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu>
Date: Tuesday, 21 July, 2009, 8:47 AM
One thing that did occur to me - we are assuming that Granata's
instrument was tuned to the same (nominal) pitch as the guitar.
But
we don't know if that was so. Perhaps it could have had the first
course tuned to g or a so that the lowest bass notes would be C or
A.
It might be an instrument for playing solo music in lute style
rather
than for accompanying a bass line although this would still be quite
possible.
Monica
----- Original Message -----
From: [1]Martyn Hodgson
To: [2]Lex Eisenhardt ; [3]Monica Hall
Cc: [4]Vihuelalist
Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2009 7:29 AM
Subject: Re: [VIHUELA] Re: Chitarra atiorbata/Guitarre theorbee
The low notes of 19th century instruments like Carulli's Decacorde
were, of course, only possible with a relatively short string length
because of the widespread use of overwound strings in this period.
Indeed the popular 'bass guitar' of the mid 19th C (a 6 string
guitar
with extra unstopped extended basses - usually 1 to 4 [ie down to
,A]
but could be more) used by Mertz, Dubez, Makaroff, Legnani, Bayer,
Regondi and many others is only possible with such heavy overwound
stringing.
Regarding other options for guitarists wishing for an extended bass,
there are the few extant examples of pieces by composers who wrote
for
the guitar and also for the theorbo but seemed to feel no
inclination
to write for the Ca/Gt: Bartolotti, De Visee to name but two.
Incidentally whilst I can usually find concordances between theorbo
and
guitar works by De Visee, I 've not identified any by Bartolotti in
the
two theorbo sources I have where he's named (or rather I presume it
is
he since his full name is not given): Wien 17706 ('Allemanda di
Angelo
Michiele'); Goess theorbo book ('Allemande d'angelo Micheli', 'Sara
d'angelo', and similar).
Martyn
--- On Mon, 20/7/09, Monica Hall <[1]mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:
From: Monica Hall <[2]mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk>
Subject: [VIHUELA] Re: Chitarra atiorbata/Guitarre theorbee
To: "Lex Eisenhardt" <[3]eisenha...@planet.nl>
Cc: "Vihuelalist" <[4]vihu...@cs.dartmouth.edu>
Date: Monday, 20 July, 2009, 5:46 PM
But there have always been these odd instruments - like the "two
guitars in
one" which Stephen Barber actually made and I had a go on. He was
also
threatening to make a "diphone".
If you go round museums you will see all manner of oddities but they
usually
have a short shelf life because they really serve no useful purpose.
You can't really argue on that basis that most players were
disatisfied
with
the 5-course guitar to the extent that they wanted an instrument
with
extended bass strings. If they were - as I have already said - the
sensible cost effective option was to put on a 6th or even a 7th
course
-
like the lute. Or they could have taken up the theorbo or
whatever.
Monica
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lex Eisenhardt" <[5][5]eisenha...@planet.nl>
To: "Vihuelalist" <[6][6]vihu...@cs.dartmouth.edu>
Sent: Monday, July 20, 2009 3:28 PM
Subject: [VIHUELA] Re: Chitarra atiorbata/Guitarre theorbee
> Depends on who were the Old Ones.
> Adding strings to the guitar to make it more complete was done in
all
> ages. Carulli used a decacorde, nowadays there is a Brahms-guitar.
> Probably a matter of compensation.
> The tessitura of he fingerboard plucked strings could range to a
low
> bourdon A.
> Lex
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Martyn Hodgson" <[7][7]hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk>
> To: "Vihuelalist" <[8][8]vihu...@cs.dartmouth.edu>; "Lex
Eisenhardt"
> <[9][9]eisenha...@planet.nl>
> Sent: Monday, July 20, 2009 4:02 PM
> Subject: [VIHUELA] Re: Chitarra atiorbata/Guitarre theorbee
>
>
>>
>>
>> I said 'ordinary 5 course' guitar (see below) in affirmation of
another
>> communication from David Van O on the subject of guitar volume
>> generally.
>>
>> As far as I'm aware, like you, I believe the theorboed guitar
was
only
>> ever plucked and probably mostly used for just exotic solo
music.
Low
>> tension plain gut at the higher octave balance very well with
>> fingerboard plucked strings (more so than heavy thud low octave
basses)
>> and with the general tessitura of the instrument.
>>
>> As said before, since the evidence is not absolutely clear,
nothing is
>> certain but I do think the greatest danger is assuming the Old
Ones
>> were seeking for a 'complete' instrument - a sort of continuo
theorbo-
>> guitar manque which would give a full range of bass notes to
allow
BC.
>> Surely the theorbo proper is better for this with the guitar
providing
>> its own idiomatic (ie mostly strummed) continuo acc.
>>
>> M.
>
>
>
>
> To get on or off this list see list information at
> [10][10]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
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