There are no illustrations of the guitarre theorbee. All that we know
about it is that there are twelve short pieces in the Gallot ms. (GB:Ob
Ms.Mus.Sch.C94) in French tablature. There are no instructions as to
how the instrument was tuned or strung. You have to try and work this
out from the music. No other source for the instrument has come to
light so far as I know.
Your suggestion that there may be structural advantages to displacing
the 11th and 12th courses Is helpful. That is really what I am trying
to work out.
Regards
Monica
On 12 June 2019 at 18:42 Azalais <azal...@gmail.com> wrote:
Could there possibly be a structural, or a bridge (and bracing) and/or
peg box spacing reason perhaps? Maybe a string oscillation clearance
issue? (I haven't seen photos or images)
azalais
On Wed, Jun 12, 2019 at 11:12 AM Monica Hall <
[1]mjlh...@cs.dartmouth.edu> wrote:
Unfortunately the source - the Gallot ms. - gives no information
about the stringing or tuning or for that matter the pitch. Therein
lies the problem. The method of stringing suggested in the article
eliminates all the quirks in the music, in particular the skip of a
7th in the bass line which occurs frequently. You really need to
read the article to understand the problem. I could send you a copy
if you are interested. I would be interested to know what you think
about the practicalities of it.
As ever
Monica
> On 12 June 2019 at 15:35 Martyn Hodgson <
[2]hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>
>
> Why are the first five open (unstopped) basses thought to be
at the lower octave? - is the source absolutely clear and wholly
unambiguous about this ( I've not yet seen the EM article myself)?
>
> Leaving aside the length of the long basses required to extend
the range down to contrabass ,B and the quality of sound, a
practical problem with this tuning (as you clearly set it out from
the EM article) would seem to be the large gap below the third
course (g) and the next stoppable course (c). However, if the first
five unstopped basses were at the upper octave they would then
continue directly scalewise downwards from the third course: ie g f
e d c B. with the last two unstopped basses at the upper octave of
a g (because of string technology limitations perhaps) as you/the
paper indicates (or they could be an octave down thus simply
extending the scalewise sequence down as on, say, a the contemporary
theorbo or archlute.).
>
> Of course, with this arrangement the c and b would be
duplicated as open strings, but the stopped pair would be fully
chromatic .
>
> Or perhaps I've misunderstood ......
>
> Marty
>
>
> On Wednesday, 12 June 2019, 14:15:27 BST, Monica Hall <
[3]mjlh...@cs.dartmouth.edu> wrote:
>
>
> Well - the pieces in the Gallot Ms. - the only known source of
music for the instrument - are all solo pieces and are in C major or
C minor. Some are found in other arrangements in other sources - one
of them is in Scottish Lute Ms. âPamure 5â and is on your CD.
>
> The two lowest course seem to be used just as frequently as
the others.
> In the ms. the courses are numbered a/ a// a/// 4 5 6 7
just to confuse.
>
> As ever
> Monica
>
>
> > On 12 June 2019 at 13:59 Rob MacKillop <
[4]robmackil...@gmail.com mailto: [5]robmackil...@gmail.com > wrote:
> >
> >
> > I see. I imagine such an instrument was mainly used for
accompaniment, with some solos being composed as well. The main keys
for a baroque guitar include Dm, C, E, and F. Having the F diapason
close to the fretboard would be useful for the keys of F, C and Dm.
Perhaps the notes a and g were less helpful for accompaniment
situations, so were shoved out of the way from the main action. But
I don't know...
> >
> > Rob
> >
> > On 12 June 2019, at 13:51, Monica Hall <
[6]mjlh...@cs.dartmouth.edu mailto: [7]mjlh...@cs.dartmouth.edu >
wrote:
> >
> > Sorry if it is not clear. It is a twelve course instrument.
There are five courses on the fingerboard and seven unstopped
basses.
> >
> > From 1st course down the tuning is
> >
> > e' c' g c B (1-5 on the fingerboard); unstopped courses are
F E D C B,(B below the bass stave) a g; 6-12 unstopped.
> >
> > There is a gap between the courses on the fingerboard and
the open basses.
> >
> > It is the arrangement of the unstopped courses on the
instrument which would be unusual. The two thinnest strings are
placed in the outside position.
> >
> > What puzzles me is what possible advantage might there be to
this.
> >
> > One thing is certain - either the open basses overlap with
the courses on the fingerboard or there is a gap between the 5th and
6th courses.
> >
> > The new arrangement fills in the gap by placing the 11th and
12th courses in the upper octave.
> >
> > As ever.
> >
> > Monica
> >
> >
> > > On 12 June 2019 at 12:45 Rob MacKillop <
[8]robmackil...@gmail.com mailto: [9]robmackil...@gmail.com > wrote:
> > >
> > > Monica,
> > >
> > > To save confusion, please use the standard method of
describing courses: the first string is always the first course.
> > >
> > > So, descending from 1st course down to 12th course the
tuning you describe appears to be:
> > >
> > > Fretted: e' c' g c B Unfretted: B C D E F a g
> > >
> > > Is that correct? If so, that is highly unusual, so
please correct me if I'm wrong.
> > >
> > > Rob MacKillop
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Wed, 12 Jun 2019 at 12:07, Monica Hall <
[10]mjlh...@cs.dartmouth.edu mailto: [11]mjlh...@cs.dartmouth.edu
mailto: [12]mjlh...@cs.dartmouth.edu mailto:
[13]mjlh...@cs.dartmouth.edu > wrote:
> > >
> > > ?space?-- The latest issue of Early Music has a
short article on the guitarre
> > theorbee suggesting an interesting tuning/stringing
method different
> > from the one suggested by Donald Gill and myself - to
witt -
> >
> > on the fingerboard - e' c' g c B
> >
> > 1st - 5th unstopped courses - F E D C B,
> >
> > 6th-7th unstopped courses - a g
> >
> > (nominally in C major - there is a C minor alternative)
> >
> > in other words there is a gap of an augmented 4th between
the lowest
> > note on the fingerboard and the first unstopped course,
but this is
> > filled in by the 6th and 7th courses which are at the
correct pitch but
> > out of sequence physically on the instrument rather than
re-entrant in
> > the strictest sense of the term.
> >
> > This certainly produces a better realization of the music
- it
> > eliminates the skip of a 7th in the bass line.
> >
> > I know that the theorbo sometimes had the lowest course
or lowest two
> > course re-entrant but these are not out of sequence.
There is no gap
> > between the stopped courses and diapasons.
> >
> > Does anyone know of any examples of a theorbo or other
instrument where
> > there is a gap between the stopped courses and the
diapasons?
> >
> > What are the advantages to having the diapasons out of
sequence like
> > this. Are there any practical advantages either when
constructing the
> > instrument or when playing it? The strings will be of the
same guage
> > wherever they are positioned on the instrument.
> >
> > Food for thought.
> >
> > As ever
> >
> > Monica
> >
> >
> > To get on or off this list see list information at
> > [14]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
> >
> >
> >
> > --
>
>
>
--
References
1. mailto:mjlh...@cs.dartmouth.edu
2. mailto:hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk
3. mailto:mjlh...@cs.dartmouth.edu
4. mailto:robmackil...@gmail.com
5. mailto:robmackil...@gmail.com
6. mailto:mjlh...@cs.dartmouth.edu
7. mailto:mjlh...@cs.dartmouth.edu
8. mailto:robmackil...@gmail.com
9. mailto:robmackil...@gmail.com
10. mailto:mjlh...@cs.dartmouth.edu
11. mailto:mjlh...@cs.dartmouth.edu
12. mailto:mjlh...@cs.dartmouth.edu
13. mailto:mjlh...@cs.dartmouth.edu
14. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
