On 04/07/09 14:31, J.A.J. Pater wrote:
> Tony Mechelynck wrote:
>> Hm, I think it's one of those things one could get used to in time, no
>> harder than deleting with d rather than Ctrl-X, pasting with P rather
>> than Ctrl-V, and copying with y rather than Ctrl-C.
> Sure one could get used to it!
> But d(elete) p(aste) y(ank) are sort of intuitive.
> But it is counter intuitive to use a key which is placed (more to the)
> right on the keyboard (lll) to go left
> and a key which is (more to the) left on the keyboard to go right (hhh).
> Which is even more so if you are used to the opposite behaviour!
> Like p doing yank (instead of paste) and y doing paste (instead of yank).
Perhaps their left-right placement leads to user misunderstanding, but I
think l should be understood as "next" and h as "previous", so that in a
sentence such as the following, where I've arbitrarily converted all LTR
to lowercase and all RTL to uppercase, but showing it here as it would
be in English text with embedded Hebrew and Arabic:
the name of god is written HVHJ in hebrew and HLLA in arabic.
ll (next-next) skips from the s (last letter) of "is" to the Jod (first
letter) of JHVH, and similarly from the second Heh of JHVH to i of "in",
from d of "and" to Alif of ALLH, from Heh of ALLH to i of "in", all the
while following reading (or handwriting) order, from one letter to the
next, and from the last letter of one word to the word-separaing space
and then the first letter of the next word. Indeed, when hand-copying
such a sentence, you'll write JHVH (Jod-Heh-Vav-Heh) and ALLH
(Alif-Lam-Lam-Heh) from right to left even though it means first
skipping the necessary space (and estimating how large it will have to
be), and similarly you'll skip rightwards from the second Heh of JHVH
and later from the Heh of ALLH, over the just-handwritten RTL word, to
where you'll be writing the next LTR word in the sentence. (And that,
even -or pehaps especially- if you know that the "accepted"
pronunciation for JHVH is in most cases Adonaï, or Elohim when
immediately preceded or followed by Adonaï written as Adonaï.)
>
>> so lllll goes uniformly first-to-last, and hhhhh last-to-first, even if the
>> movement is a little
>> jerky when meeting a direction change within a line of text. (Or did I
>> misunderstand? AFAICT I haven't got mlterm installed)
>>
> Indeed, jerkiness is another reason to have h and l move in only one way.
>> My notion would be that a true-bidi gvim should work exactly like
>> vim+mlterm with 'termbidi'.
>>
> That would be nice! But I think there should be an option to make h and
> l movement unequivocal
> (like it is with gedit+ViGedit).
> And AFAIUI, it is because of these kind of discussions that Bram doesn't
> like the idea of a real-bidi gvim.
I don't kow gedit, but IMHO it is already unequivocal, if we remember
that in Vim the cursor is always "on" a character, never "between"
characters, even in Insert mode where, in gvim, its "25% left-side
vertical bar" shape can make us believe that it is "between" the current
character cell and the one (if any) to its left, or "before" the whole
line if it's on the first character of a line.
As long as true-bidi consoles are a rarity, there is no urgency for a
true-bidi gvim, but I suppose that some years from now, all console
terminals will behave like mlterm, and by then there could be some
demand for a true-bidi gvim. I expect that true-bidi gvim and true-bidi
Console vim will behave the same way, but I suppose that that is still
several years in the future.
>
> Anyway: thanks again!
My pleasure.
>
> Adriaan.
Best regards,
Tony.
--
Probable-Possible, my black hen,
She lays eggs in the Relative When.
She doesn't lay eggs in the Positive Now
Because she's unable to postulate how.
-- Frederick Winsor
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