Hi Tara, if you're referring to my comments in this thread, you are misrepresenting them. I didn't say that it was Apple's responsibility to keep Braille alive. However I did say that just as in every other product category, it is Apple's responsibility to provide a product that is fit for purpose and we should accept nothing less. It's no different from, say, Apple entering the Chinese market without properly understanding how Chinese characters need to be written optimally. When they don't provide a product that is fit for purpose, those of us who know it isn't mustn't remain silent. Let's be absolutely clear what's at steak here. Employment, opportunity, and literacy. In the United States, it's estimated that around 70% of working-aged blind people don't have a job. Yet 90% of Braille readers who want a job, have a job. Why? Because Braille is the only true full literacy tool we have. It's the only way we can write something down, and read back what we've written. By that, I mean that we can interact with symbols and have our brain decode them as a sighted person does, as opposed to having a machine read back to us what we've written. Without Braille, I may not have held, or would certainly have been far less effective in every job I've done. I wouldn't have been able to read all seven Harry Potter books, and many others, to my kids with a fluency that kept them interested. And I would have a far lesser appreciation of how things should be physically laid out and formatted, which is important if one's work is to be taken seriously. The Braille crisis is also acknowledged by the National Federation of the Blind in the United States, the Royal national Institute of Blind People in the United Kingdom, and the World Blind Union as a whole, none of whom have any particular assistive technology axe to grind. Perhaps some blind people who get into assistive technology do so because they want to get off the sidelines and make a positive difference, One of the reasons why I moved from technology journalism and accepted an offer to get involved in the production of assistive technology in the first place was to put Braille in the hands of more people. As someone who has chaired New Zealand's blindness agency, and consumer movement, it's something about which I feel absolutely passionate. I've been proud to have played a part in drastically reducing the cost of refreshable Braille. When I entered the industry in 2003, a 40 cell Braille display, with no note taking functions, was well over 5,000 2003 dollars. Now you can get one for 2700 2015 dollars and the price needs to go lower still. So yes, I am passionate to my very core about Braille and the employment, dignity, independence and opportunity it affords. And we as blind people have a responsibility to let purchasers, who may not have to live with the consequences of their decisions, know that Apple are not yet delivering in the area of contracted Braille input, for all the good they have done elsewhere. And rather than defend the notetaker paradigm, as I indicated in my blog post, a PC with a Braille display is an absolutely viable option, far more so than an Apple product is at present. Jonathan Mosen Mosen Consulting Blindness technology eBooks, tutorials and training http://Mosen.org
> On 21/06/2015, at 7:35 am, TaraPrakash <taraprak...@gmail.com> wrote: > > Yet, this is the majority opinion. Some people may be more worried about > braille which is a good thing to have as an option. and blind children must > have the option to learn braille. but somehow it's apple's responsibility to > keep the braille alive, is disingenuous in my opinion. your 6,500 device is > not fast or durable or efficient enough even for the blind as apple devices > have become. those who work in the field of assistive devices have their > vvested interest in bringing in the braille issue with some emotions about > survival and identity. > > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Jun 20, 2015, at 2:17 PM, Alex Hall <mehg...@icloud.com > <mailto:mehg...@icloud.com>> wrote: > >> What I've found is that I don't need braille output at all. Please >> understand this is *my* opinion and situation, and I kknow everyone's is >> different. I'm not telling you what you should do, just offering my >> observations, for what they're worth. >> >> I used a notetaker in school and college, but slowly used it less and less. >> Today, I use a Macbook Air and iPhone for everything. Sure, sometimes it's >> not quite as efficient at certain things, but it more than makes up for that >> in the app selection and raw horsepower. Plus, the efficiency offered by >> Dropbox, iCloud, Handoff, and other cloud services can't be forgotten; sure, >> typing your notes into a notetaker might be a few seconds faster, but you'll >> have to spend more time syncing up those notes to your computer later. With >> my setup, I can type notes on either device and have them appear instantly >> on the other, and with braille screen input or Mbraille on iOS, I can do it >> in braille. >> >> A lot of it comes down to what you'll need and how you operate. As you said, >> the central problem is that a display plus an iOS device is cheaper, more >> modular, more powerful, and more versatile. However, a dedicated notetaker >> is more efficient, for certain tasks, and can more easily be used on the go >> or in noisy situations. Unfortunately, there's no perfect solution to the >> problem right now. >>> On Jun 20, 2015, at 10:49 AM, Joe <jsoro...@gmail.com >>> <mailto:jsoro...@gmail.com>> wrote: >>> >>> Jonathan, >>> >>> Excellent blog post as always. Only, while I agree children are crucial, >>> adult professionals should receive equal consideration. I was beginning to >>> lean toward using a Braille display with an iDevice as a viable solution, >>> but your points give me pause. I need to be able to be as productive as I >>> can be using Braille on a dedicated notetaker. The apps on the more >>> sophisticated Braille Sense are great but still limited. That means I could >>> go for a compromise, purchasing one of the awkward hybrids like the Braille >>> Edge or VarioUltra, but it doesn’t seem as though I could fully harness the >>> horse power of the iDevice if the interaction between display and iOS is >>> efficient. Any further thoughts welcomed. My point here isn’t to stir up a >>> debate of notetakers versus displays. I need to be productive on the move. >>> A full notetaker can be cost-prohibitive. A display doesn’t seem to be the >>> most efficient option. LOL I thought we’d made a little more progress. >>> >>> Joe >>> >>> -- >>> Musings of a Work in Progress: >>> www.JoeOrozco.com/ <http://www.joeorozco.com/> >>> >>> Twitter: @ScribblingJoe >>> >>> From: viphone@googlegroups.com >>> <mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com>[mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com >>> <mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com>] On Behalf Of Jonathan Mosen >>> Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2015 1:32 AM >>> To: viphone@googlegroups.com <mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com> >>> Subject: Re: Replacing Braille Notetaker with iDevice >>> >>> Hi Joe, I want to address your question about Braille input in iOS. In my >>> view it is not fit for purpose. I don't know what it is about Braille input >>> Apple doesn't get, whether the blind people they consult with about these >>> things aren't Braille users, or what the deal is. They have the financial >>> and technical resources to fix the issues if they were of a mind to, but >>> sadly it appears we are going to see another major release of iOS without >>> appropriately robust Braille input being available. >>> As you know, some manufacturers have chosen to do Apple's work for them, >>> and work around the woeful Braille input in iOS by keeping text in a >>> buffer, then sending it to iOS all at once. I guess this is a pragmatic >>> response, but it also let's Apple off the hook. Apple is a mainstream >>> technology company, but they have also made the choice to be a screen >>> reader company, and I don't believe they should be held to any lesser >>> standard than any other screen reader company. >>> They are receiving awards and praise and I don't begrudge them any of it. >>> It is well deserved. But those of us who are passionate about not just the >>> spread of Braille, but the very survival of Braille, need to stand up and >>> be counted. >>> There's no doubt that notetaker products can no longer keep up with the >>> phrenetic pace of technology, if they ever really could. So just in terms >>> of the range of things that can be done, getting an iThing is probably a >>> better bet than a notetaker. And some adults may well be confident enough >>> in their Braille skills to work around the shortcomings in Apple's Braille >>> input. >>> What really concerns me though is the kids, and in this case I believe >>> notetakers will have a place unless and until Apple get it together when it >>> comes to Braille input. >>> I am pasting below a blog post I wrote a couple of years ago called "The >>> Apple Braille Crisis, it's got to be fixed for the kids". While some minor >>> changes were made in iOS 8, it is mostly still relevant. Here it is. >>> People from all walks of life, not just blind people, can get extremely >>> partisan about their technology preferences. Anything their team does is >>> unquestionably wonderful, while anything another company does is rubbish, >>> simply by virtue of the fact that it’s the other guys who did it. If you >>> criticise the company such people support, you’ve committed heresy. >>> As blind people, I don’t believe we have the luxury of being so childish. >>> Unemployment is high. Misconceptions abound regarding how capable we can be >>> in the workplace, and in society as a whole. We need to be open to all >>> solutions, and where possible, use the best mix of technology we can to be >>> as productive, functional and self-reliant as we can. >>> To be clear, I have enormous admiration for the way Apple has changed the >>> game in assistive technology. When they released VoiceOver in 2009, I was >>> concerned that Apple might do just enough to get people off its back >>> regarding the inaccessibility of the iPhone. But that has not been the >>> case. With every release, Apple has added tangible enhancements such as >>> alternative forms of input, innovative ways for us to use the camera, and >>> so much more. So Apple’s commitment to accessibility is real, its ongoing, >>> and it has earned enormous praise and respect. >>> Is there a “but” coming? Yes, there is, actually., because being grateful >>> for a product doesn’t mean we don’t have rights as paying consumers to >>> point out where a product falls short. But more than that, if Apple’s >>> innovations risk killing off a category of product, and the literacy of our >>> kids is threatened, we have a moral obligation to speak up constructively >>> and ask Apple to engage with us as a community about fixing the issue. >>> The Internet is buzzing with reports of bugs in iOS 7. I’m not unduly >>> concerned about most of these, because I believe the majority of them will >>> come out in the wash. iOS 7 was a massive refactoring of the OS. I hope >>> that there’ll be fixes released steadily across the coming year. >>> However, I am deeply troubled by Apple’s ongoing apparent failure to >>> understand what constitutes Braille support of an appropriate quality. >>> We’re not talking bugs in this case, we’re talking a fundamental user >>> interface failure – a feature not fully fit for purpose. >>> Since Braille was introduced in iOS, it has supported contracted Braille in >>> English markets. This is a means by which space is saved, and speed >>> increased, by using a series of symbols and abbreviations. When one reads >>> contracted Braille in iOS, it works quite well. When one writes it, it is >>> the worst implementation of contracted input I’ve ever used on any device. >>> Since its inception, if you input a letter in contracted Braille which >>> would be the abbreviation for a word if surrounded by spaces, iOS expands >>> the word it represents if you pause for a short time before inputting the >>> next character. For example, write “p” and it will quickly be expanded to >>> the word “people”. If you are proofing a document you’ve brailled and wish >>> to insert a letter in the middle of a word, you must preface the letter >>> with a letter sign, dots 5-6, to prevent it from being expanded. This is >>> not in accordance with the Braille code and is simply wrong. >>> Apple must surely know about this poor implementation. It’s been talked >>> about in many forums, including an excellent presentation by Judy Dixon at >>> the CSUN Technology Conference on Persons with Disabilities. I, and I’m >>> sure others, have also raised it. >>> It’s also evident that Apple knows about the issues, because to its credit, >>> it appears to at least have made an effort to try and fix the problem in >>> iOS 7. It now offers an “Automatic Braille Translation” toggle. This >>> feature is so below par compared with most of the design of all other >>> VoiceOver features, that it must surely be the case that Apple is getting >>> no advice, or poor advice, from anyone actually using Braille in their >>> daily life. >>> When you toggle “Automatic Braille Translation” off, you can take as long >>> as you wish when inputting characters, and they’re not back-translated. >>> Isn’t that what we want? Well yes, it would appear to be a step in the >>> right direction. Except when you use it, you find that Braille is not >>> readable on the display until you either press the space bar, or dots >>> 4-5-cord. Why Apple believes this is acceptable, I have no idea. Can you >>> imagine a sighted person finding it acceptable in any other scenario other >>> than password entry, to not be able to look at what they’re entering until >>> they press “Space”? >>> But it’s worse than that. If you backspace over what you’ve typed, you run >>> into back-translation issues similar to those experienced when automatic >>> translation is set to on. >>> Additionally, having to press dots 4-5-cord after inserting a letter in the >>> middle of a word is counterintuitive, and again, an implementation far more >>> primitive than anything else that offers contracted input. Apple seems to >>> have implemented a pretty crude buffer, that is simply dumped when you type >>> one of two commands to empty it. That is not a solution. >>> The Braille implementation in iOS does not meet the “it’s intuitive and it >>> just works” test that has been the hallmark of Apple products including >>> VoiceOver. >>> Now if it were just about us as Braille reading adults, I wouldn’t bother >>> writing this post. It would get on my nerves, but I’d continue to work >>> around it and just put it down to a bizarre, less than optimal >>> implementation. I’m not writing this for me. I’m not asking blind people, >>> and the world’s consumer organisations, to come together on this for me or >>> people like me. I’m writing this for the kids. It’s the kids who matter. >>> If you’re a Braille user, you’ll have seen the implementation of Nemeth in >>> iOS 7. It’s there because Apple’s going after the education market, >>> particularly in the US. Good for Apple. I can see enormous benefit in a kid >>> being given an iPad and a Braille display for use at home and in school. >>> Don’t underestimate how mainstream tech can be a great way to help blind >>> kids blend in with sighted kids. Parents feel more empowered, because the >>> iPad is technology they know and understand, so when the child gets in >>> trouble at home, they can help out. Classroom teachers in mainstream >>> schools know what an iPad is as well and feel similarly empowered. >>> But all of these benefits have to be secondary considerations to the one >>> that matters above all else, – equipping our kids with good Braille >>> literacy skills. Braille is their ticket to higher education. Braille >>> offers a greater chance of gainful employment. Braille is absolutely >>> critical, and Braille is not to be trifled with. Half-baked Braille >>> solutions are not appropriate for our kids when there’s a crisis in getting >>> Braille instruction to them already. >>> We should not expect our kids to have to learn to work-around Apple’s poor >>> implementation, we should expect Apple to fix its Braille. >>> For the last 20 years or so, blind kids have increasingly used proprietary >>> notetaker technology. I’ve no problem whatsoever with technology moving on, >>> and a category of product becoming obsolete. I love the idea of investing >>> in a good Braille display that will last you for years, and upgrading the >>> technology that drives the display on a more regular basis. But that >>> technology has to do the Braille properly. >>> There are cost savings to be made by cash-strapped agencies who purchase >>> equipment for blind children, and that’s also why I’m writing this post. I >>> can see bean-counters concluding that the combination of an iPad and a >>> Braille display is a good solution for kids now. Many of these purchasers >>> are not Braille users themselves, and I believe we have a duty of care to >>> our kids to spread the word that Apple is not there yet. It is trying, and >>> should be applauded for doing so, but still, it’s not there. >>> You will remember the huge backlash caused by the initial release of Apple >>> Maps in iOS 6. In terms of fitness for purpose, Apple Maps was far superior >>> at release than Braille is now. The only difference is that Braille affects >>> a tiny fraction of Apple’s user-base, not hundreds of millions of people. >>> Lest anyone think I’m whining without a solution, I actually know a lot >>> about this subject, having worked as a product manager with a range of >>> products that use contracted Braille. I have a good feel for where Apple >>> has got it wrong and what it might do to fix it, while not of course being >>> familiar with the VoiceOver code. But I am absolutely confident that it’s >>> fixable. Let’s not forget, Apple invented a way for blind people to make >>> effective use of touch screens. Apple gave us unimagined access to taking >>> photos. It is certainly not beyond Apple to look at best practice and >>> figure this one out, because unlike some of the other things it’s done, the >>> solutions already exist. >>> If this poor-quality support had been offered to us by an assistive >>> technology company, we’d have jumped all over it long before now. But given >>> that Apple develops screen readers, that makes it both a mainstream >>> technology company, and an assistive technology company. We should hold it >>> to no less a standard. >>> Having outlined the problem, here’s what I think needs to happen. >>> Typically, I’d suggest that Apple needs to engage with the community with a >>> view to fixing these issues for the sake of our kids, but that’s not really >>> been its style. It is secretive by nature. In that case then, it needs to >>> buy the expertise to make Braille truly viable in the education market. >>> As Braille readers, we need to politely articulate the problems to Apple, >>> and let Apple know we consider it important that they are fixed. >>> Consumer organisations should do what they’ve done so many times before, >>> and focus on their unity when it comes to Braille issues. A broad-coalition >>> of consumers, educators and parents needs to ensure this issue is not >>> allowed to drop. >>> And finally, no one in charge of any purse strings should consider it an >>> appropriate solution to give a kid an iPad in the classroom if they’re a >>> Braille user. If purchasers want to move away from the blindness notetaker, >>> and I get that, a laptop and Braille display is a far better solution in >>> terms of Braille reliability and consistency. >>> I’ll be the first to cheer loudly, and sing Apple’s praises, if it fixes >>> its Braille. And I’ll continue to praise all it has done right, which I >>> often do in media interviews and blindness tech forums. But please, for the >>> sake of the kids, lets do what we need to do to advocate for good quality >>> Braille on Apple devices. We have a duty to the next generation to do no >>> less. >>> I’ve done what I can as an individual to make Apple aware of these >>> failings, but clearly, we need to do more to help it gain an appreciation >>> of why this is so important. >>> >>> Jonathan Mosen >>> Mosen Consulting >>> Blindness technology eBooks, tutorials and training >>> http://Mosen.org <http://mosen.org/> >>> >>>> On 20/06/2015, at 9:24 am, Joe <jsoro...@gmail.com >>>> <mailto:jsoro...@gmail.com>> wrote: >>>> >>>> Hi, I'm curious to hear from people who have replaced their Braille >>>> notetaker with an iDevice. I've been toying with the idea of investing in a >>>> U2 for reading books, taking notes and performing similar quick tasks. >>>> >>>> Questions: >>>> >>>> 1. I've heard there are displays that let you type text and then send to >>>> the >>>> iDevice in one burst. I don't understand the mechanics of this, but what >>>> are >>>> the displays you know that do this? >>>> >>>> 2. Is Braille input in iOS as dreadful as some people have made it out to >>>> be? I don't mind learning various keystrokes, but I do mind delays in >>>> transmition. >>>> >>>> 3. Is there a means to read BRF in iOS? >>>> >>>> 4. What 32-cell display would you personally recommend? >>>> >>>> Thanks guys for any help. >>>> >>>> Joe >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Musings of a Work in Progress: >>>> www.JoeOrozco.com/ <http://www.joeorozco.com/> >>>> >>>> Twitter: @ScribblingJoe >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> The following information is important for all members of the viphone >>>> list. All new members to the this list are moderated by default. If you >>>> have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you >>>> feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or >>>> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. 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