Yes, I agree Christopher. Android is an option now. If someone doesn't like where iOS is headed, switch to Android. That's not a snarky remark, either. It's an invitation.
On Fri, Dec 16, 2016, 6:47 PM Sieghard Weitzel <siegh...@live.ca> wrote: > Not at all, Christopher, I am partial to iOS but I'm not an Apple fan boy > in any extreme way. I said that "there are other things I may not like > about Android. I want a > platform that is rock solid, secure, super accessible and which offers a > good feature set." > As you see I said "platform" I didn't say I want "iOS to be rock solid > etc.". Android maybe rock solid, I'm not using it so I can't say except for > what I hear from friends who have used it or are using it. Anyhow, that > wasn't my point, my point is that bitching in general about anything to > people who can't do anything about it typically doesn't have much of a > result and if it goes on too long it just ticks people off. I can complain > all day long about our government, but if I don't vote I am not > participating in an active way to change it. The same goes for any > software, if I don't report bugs, maybe even participate in public beta > programs and so on and all I do is complain to a group of people who > already know the problems I am not helping. It doesn't matter if that is > iOS, Android, Windows or whatever. > > Regards, > Sieghard > > -----Original Message----- > From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On > Behalf Of Christopher Chaltain > Sent: Friday, December 16, 2016 4:16 PM > To: viphone@googlegroups.com > Subject: Re: Apple has a serious problem with software quality | ZDNet > > This is just my opinion, but Sieghard, you make it sound like Android is > not rock solid or secure, and that isn't how I feel. I do think Android and > Talk Back are rock solid. IMHO, maybe even more so than IOS and VoiceOver. > For what I use my phone for, I feel I run into fewer bugs on my S7 then I > do on my iPhone, but obviously a lot of this is dependent on how someone > uses their phone. > > I will grant that Android is not as secure as IOS, but I have yet to be > compromised. I run some anti-malware software on my S7, and I'm careful on > where I get apps. With this, I think Android is as secure as I need it to > be. I'm willing to put up with some of Android's warts in order to take > advantage of some of it's features, but obviously not everyone will be in > the same boat. > > I'm not trying to sell anyone on Android, and it definitely has some > issues that haven't been touched on in this thread. Apple and the iPhone > are great choices, but I really believe we have two good options here for > an accessible mobile platform, and it's great that people have this choice > and can take advantages of the strengths in each platform. > > On 16/12/16 16:25, Sieghard Weitzel wrote: > > Pablo and I guess Mario, > > > > > > > > I am only sending one more reply to this, after that any threads of > > that nature become subject to my delete key. > > > > I am not defending Apple at all and totally agree that they need to > > fix bugs and maintain the gold standard they set in accessibility. In > > fact, they have to maintain it not only in accessibility but also in > general. > > Steve Jobbs used to say "It just works" when he introduced some new > > device or feature and that is what people expect from Apple. I > > couldn't care less about the latest fancy features Android may have > > because there are other things I may not like about Android. I want a > > platform that is rock solid, secure, super accessible and which offers a > good feature set. > > > > Where you I think do not understand me is in what I am saying about > > posting these rants about how Apple needs to get their act together on > > this list. We are all blind or visually impaired on this list and want > > iOS to be perfect. If I met with a group of 25 blind iOS users in > > person once a month and each time I complained about how Apple needs > > to fix their bugs that is not productive. I need to tell Apple > > Accessibility, you need to tell Apple Accessibility and every one of > > the 25 guys I am meeting in my hypothetical monthly get-together needs > > to tell Apple Accessibility. For this group this means we all need to > > email and/or call Apple Accessibility and tell them. Telling each > > other doesn't help, it's like if you have an arguement with a friend. > > You resolve it by having an open and honest discussion with your > > friend and not by telling another friend. > > > > Now, if I discover a bug and want to verify that it's a bug everybody > > experiences then I can of course post it to the list and get people's > > feedback, but I post what I discovered and describe the behaviour, I > > don't necessarily include a rant about how Apple should have never let > > this bug happen in the first place. Maybe you want feedback from a > > friend about how you should approach your other friend with whom you > > have the arguement and then it's OK to discuss it with your other > > friend, but you still need to go and have it out with the friend with > > whom you have the arguement. In this case the friend with whom you > > have the arguement is Apple, this list is your friend with whom you > > can talk about how you should handle it. > > > > If you want to tell the sighted world at large about Apple > > Accessibility and how Apple needs to do more than go right ahead, tell > > everybody at the bus stop or at the line up at the checkout counter or > > post it to the Google Community of Rob's Today in iOS Podcast, but > > complaining continuously on the Viphone list is like preaching to the > > choir, it doesn't help and it just makes most people want to whip you > > with Apple Earpods and Lightning cables **that was supposed to be a > joke**. > > > > Anyhow, it just gets old, here we all know and experience the bugs and > > challenges with accessibility, we all want it to be better but it will > > only get better if Apple gets more and more feedback and good feedback > > which means good and detailed bug reports and not rants about how this > > should just all be fixed. > > > > Yes, sometimes it seems inexcusable how some bugs persist throughout a > > beta cycle or even multiple major releases of iOS. But to say Apple is > > not fixing bugs or that they are not improving accessibility with new > > features is garbage, I'm sure the team at Apple that is in charge of > > Voiceover and accessibility tries very hard and that they do all they > > can, but Apple is not just that team and I'm sure they are sometimes > > just as frustrated as you are that a new version gets released with > > new bugs or old bugs which haven't been fixed. > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > Sieghard > > > > > > > > *From:* viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] *On > > Behalf Of *Pablo C. Morales > > *Sent:* Thursday, December 15, 2016 12:15 PM > > *To:* viphone@googlegroups.com > > *Subject:* RE: Apple has a serious problem with software quality | > > ZDNet > > > > > > > > Hi Sieghard > > > > I think that you haven’t read the whole threads in the last days. I > > said so because you are replying this email without knowledge of why I > > am posting this email. I recommend that you check about it in the last > > 2 days. Yes it is an IOs list, however it doesn’t mean that we cannot > > say that apple is doing a bad job regarding software updates, and > > specially fixing the problems that their software team are creating > > each IOs update. Mario is right when he says that apple has to be more > > responsible with their customers. I said something similar months ago, > > when I complained about the usability of our phones and the time that > > apple takes to fix bugs, and sometimes they just ignore the bugs and > > release new IOs, with more bugs. Obviously Sieghard your attitude > > shows a strong position in favor of apple, and you feel like ignoring > > what is wrong. Your attitude is no helping the blind community, your > > attitude defending apple when they are no fixing the bugs is going to > > fix apple in the future. Your attitude is hurting the accessibility > > and hurting apple too. You are defending a company that in the past > > had a very good attitude with the software and with the bugs > unrepaired of software. > > You are defending them when they are no doing a good job. I posted > > those links, no talking about android or blackberry, those web pages > > are talking about the same point that we have been talking in the list > > these las 2 days. Bugs, and bad quality of software. The android > > developers are going to fix those problems? > > > > No, you know that they are not going to do it. Apple is going to fix > > this problems? > > > > Obviously they are no putting a lot of interest fixing these problems, > > they are more concern in the releases of new fancy IOs, than fixing > > the bugs of those new fancy releases. > > > > Who is going to fix these problems? > > > > We, their customers. We need to call, we need to write, we need to do > > a lot of noise because we are paying their checks with the products > > that we are buying. It is how market works. > > > > In the last emails I have said, several times that liking or not. > > Voiceover is the best choice for us. I am not saying that android > > accessibility is better, no I didn’t said that. Read those emails and > > you will see what is my position about it. I am not saying that Mario > > and many others are wrong, no. They are right, apple is no doing a > > good job with the software. But it doesn’t mean that I am saying that > > apple bs, as you said. > > > > I don’t use that vocabulary, I am not accustomed to do that. > > > > However, saying that apple is great, and keeping your attitude of just > > highlight the good things, are not going to improve the quality of > > apple software. Calling, writing, making noise is what is going to > > improve the software quality. I rather to write, to call, to make > > noise. I rather to complain to apple about their low quality. Because > > I am living in The United States where I have the right to complain > > about this kind of things when I paid for that. I am using my right. > > More over this right improves quality and it is what apple and > > customer’s needs. No just saying that whoever said something that you > > don’t like about apple, are wrong. > > > > > > > > > > > > *From:* viphone@googlegroups.com <mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com> > > [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] *On Behalf Of *Sieghard Weitzel > > *Sent:* Wednesday, December 14, 2016 10:12 PM > > *To:* viphone@googlegroups.com <mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com> > > *Subject:* RE: Apple has a serious problem with software quality | > > ZDNet > > > > > > > > Pablo and others, > > > > > > > > You can find bunches of articles on anything on Google. I could send > > you > > 50 links of articles which praise Apple and iOS to high heaven, then I > > can send you just as many that are the complete opposite and the same > > applies to Google/Android. I can probably even find you some die-hard > > Blackberry fans who are posting that Blackberry is the best ever and > > both iOS and Android are complete BS. I don't think we have to get > > into what is better or if iOS is any good or anything like that. The > > point is that this is an iOS list, we are all here because we use iOS > > devices due to their very good level of accessibility. We all know > > there are bugs and that there always will be bugs. We all know that > > Apple with iOS, Mac OS, TVOS and Watch OS don't have an exclusive on > > them, Android has them, Windows has them, Google Chrome has them and > > other software like Jaws, Office, Adobe, Firefox they all have bugs as > do all apps. > > > > This list is and should be about helping each other, answering each > > others questions and posting articles about some particularly cool app > > or accessory. The list is also about posting about bugs you discover > > or think you have discovered, sure you can point out your thoughts > > that Apple should do more or that Apple really should have fixed this > > or that bug already or during the Beta cycle, but I think these rants > > which then result in endless one-liners about how somebody is right or > > wrong or should go and get an Android phone if they aren't happy with > > the iPhone are just getting old, they usually just rephrase what has > > already been said a dozen times over. As you know very well yourself > > Android isn't all it's made out to be and while you say you totally > > would have an Android phone if you could see there are also thousands > > of ex-Android users who can see and who love their new iPhones after > > making the switch. Then of course there are those "happy" Android > > users who bought Samsung's new flagship Note 7 only to be surprised > > when the smoke hit the fan, if this had happened to the iPhone 7 Apple > > would have been /crucified and in a much worse way than Samsung./ > > > > Headlines like your ssubject "Apple has a serious problem with > > software quality" are typical link bait, you can go on Google and find > > lots of examples for either one, here is just one example that swings > > the other way from Forbes: "New Android Malware Strikes At Millions Of > Smartphones". > > > > Sometimes you even find something that is more objective like the > > summary of this comparison article: > > > > iOS 10 vs Android 7.0 Nougat: Conclusion. > > > > In many respects, Android and iOS are very similar. They're both > > slick, refined, competent mobile operating systems. Each has its > > advantages and unique features, as well as frustrations and weaknesses. > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > Sieghard > > > > > > > > *From:* viphone@googlegroups.com <mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com> > > [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] *On Behalf Of *Pablo C. Morales > > *Sent:* Wednesday, December 14, 2016 4:42 PM > > *To:* viphone@googlegroups.com <mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com> > > *Subject:* Apple has a serious problem with software quality | ZDNet > > > > > > > > Look at this article, you can find bunches of them on > > google. > > > > http://www.zdnet.com/article/apple-has-a-serious-problem-with-software > > -quality/ > > > > > > > > -- > > The following information is important for all members of the V iPhone > list. > > > > If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, > > or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact > > the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. > > > > Your V iPhone list moderator is Mark Taylor and your owner is Cara > > Quinn > > - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com > > <mailto:caraqu...@caraquinn.com> > > > > The archives for this list can be searched at: > > http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/ > > --- > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > > Groups "VIPhone" group. > > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send > > an email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com > > <mailto:viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com>. > > To post to this group, send email to viphone@googlegroups.com > > <mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com>. > > Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/viphone. > > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > > > -- > > The following information is important for all members of the V iPhone > list. > > > > If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, > > or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact > > the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. > > > > Your V iPhone list moderator is Mark Taylor and your owner is Cara > > Quinn > > - 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you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com > > > > The archives for this list can be searched at: > > http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/ > > --- > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > > Groups "VIPhone" group. > > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send > > an email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com > > <mailto:viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com>. > > To post to this group, send email to viphone@googlegroups.com > > <mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com>. > > Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/viphone. > > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > -- > Christopher (CJ) > chaltain at Gmail > > -- > The following information is important for all members of the V iPhone > list. > > If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or > if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the > owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. > > Your V iPhone list moderator is Mark Taylor and your owner is Cara Quinn - 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