Chrome and Firefox both work really well. > On Oct 8, 2023, at 7:40 PM, Ron Canazzi <aa...@roadrunner.com> wrote: > > Hi Group, > > Since this editorial involves primarily Safari browser and since there are > other browsers such as Firefox that can be used on the Mac, has anyone tried > Firefox on a Mac or perhaps any other browser? > > > On 10/8/2023 7:35 PM, Sieghard Weitzel wrote: >> I love my iPhone and even my Apple TV, but while I tried Voiceover on a MAC >> a little, it is not a system I would want to deal with on a day-to-day bases. >> Maybe that is because I have been using Jaws at first with DOS in 1989 and >> since the mid 90’s with Windows, but I can’t even imagine what such a bug >> would do to me now when my retail business runs on a web-based point of >> fsale and accounting platform and I virtually use Chrome (or sometimes Edge) >> along with Excel and Outlook literally all day long. >> Of course I don’t claim that Windows 11 with the latest version of a >> Chromium-based web browser or Firefox and Jaws 2023 and for a while now Jaws >> 2024 in Beta is perfect, but it’s very rare that Windows, Chrome or Jaws >> crashes when I use our point of sale, Lightspeed Retail and I often go the >> entire week without having to reboot my computer. On Saturday evenings we >> usually turn all the computers at my store off since we are closed Sundays, >> but once they get turned on Monday morning they stay on until Saturday >> evening. >> >> Best regards, >> Sieghard >> >> From: viphone@googlegroups.com <viphone@googlegroups.com> On Behalf Of janet >> gross >> Sent: Sunday, October 8, 2023 4:27 PM >> To: viphone@googlegroups.com >> Subject: We Deserve Better from Apple Why I Can No Longer Recommend a Mac to >> Fellow Blind Computer Users. >> >> Hello Everyone, >> Here is an interesting article I just thought some of you might like to >> read. >> >> >> https://www.applevis.com/blog/we-deserve-better-apple-why-i-can-no-longer-recommend-mac-fellow-blind-computer-users >> We Deserve Better from Apple: Why I Can No Longer Recommend a Mac to Fellow >> Blind Computer Users >> As many of you will know from personal experience, there is a longstanding >> issue with VoiceOver on Mac where Safari will frequently become unresponsive >> with VoiceOver repeatedly announcing the message “Safari not responding.” >> When this issue occurs, the user's Mac may become unusable for up to several >> minutes at a time. Sometimes it can be resolved by switching away from >> Safari. Sometimes restarting VoiceOver can resolve the issue. However, far >> too often, the user is unable to switch away from Safari or turn VoiceOver >> off, instead having to simply wait for their Mac to become responsive again. >> This “Safari not responding” behaviour when using VoiceOver dramatically >> impacts productivity and overall usability of Macs for blind and low vision >> users. Furthermore, it appears that the issue extends beyond just Safari - >> many other common applications that utilise Apple's WebKit browser engine >> can also be affected by the “not responding” problem. >> It is also important to point out this issue occurs regardless of the >> specification level of the Mac - it has been widely experienced on the >> latest Apple silicon-equipped Macs with 16GB or more of RAM, so even owners >> of top-tier new Mac hardware still face this crippling VoiceOver bug. >> This critical problem has persisted for years across multiple MacOS versions >> without a permanent fix from Apple. Given the longevity and level of >> disruption caused by this bug across Safari and other applications, I can >> unfortunately no longer in good faith recommend Macs to anyone who relies on >> using VoiceOver. The impact of this bug when performing routine, and often >> critical, tasks in Safari and other applications simply makes macOS an >> unreliable and frustrating platform. >> Macs have traditionally been popular within the blind community, and they >> offer some great accessibility features. However, frankly, Apple should be >> utterly ashamed that they have let this issue persist for so long without a >> permanent fix. It's a failing that raises serious questions about the >> company's frequently stated commitment to accessibility. There can be no >> doubt that if sighted users were to experience something similar, that it >> would receive significant media coverage and that Apple's response would be >> fast. >> I believe we need to escalate out urging of Apple to prioritise and >> permanently solve the “Safari not responding” bug that has plagued VoiceOver >> users for far too long. To this end, I encourage those of you who use >> VoiceOver on Mac to directly contact Apple's accessibility team at >> accessibil...@apple.com to share your own personal experiences with and >> frustrations about the “Safari not responding” issue. It is important we >> continue putting direct, polite pressure on Apple to prioritise resolving >> this problem. Please be constructive in expressing your concerns. Consider >> also copying Apple CEO Tim Cook on your email by using his publicly shared >> email address tc...@apple.com to ensure he sees the direct impact this >> ongoing bug is having on Apple's blind and low vision customers. >> I want to emphasise that the “Safari not responding” bug is far from the >> only issue effecting VoiceOver users on Mac. As our recent post on problems >> in macOS Sonoma and the replies outline, there are numerous other VoiceOver >> frustrations and failures impacting users. However, it has become a >> yardstick by which Apple's overall performance on and commitment to >> accessibility is being judged. It is a yardstick against which Apple has >> failed for some considerable time. >> I know many of you share my frustration. I welcome your perspectives and >> discussion in the comments. Collectively, we need to apply consumer pressure >> by being vocal about this issue and not purchasing new Macs until the >> “Safari not responding” issue is fixed once and for all. Apple simply must >> do better and restore our trust that Macs provide a stable and fully >> accessible experience for its blind and low vision customers. >> >> David Goldfield >> Assistive Technology Specialist >> >> >> Subscribe to the Tech-VI announcement list to receive news and updates >> regarding the blindness assistive technology space >> Email: tech-vi+subscr...@groups.io >> >> WWW.DavidGoldfield.com >> _._,_._,_ >> >> >> -- >> The following information is important for all members of the V iPhone list. >> >> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if >> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or >> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. >> >> Your V iPhone list moderator is Mark Taylor. Mark can be reached at: >> mk...@ucla.edu. Your list owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at >> caraqu...@caraquinn.com >> >> The archives for this list can be searched at: >> http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/ >> --- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "VIPhone" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >> To view this discussion on the web visit >> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/viphone/BL3P221MB0273E6C79CC1FB1F0F930FD8FCCFA%40BL3P221MB0273.NAMP221.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM. >> -- >> The following information is important for all members of the V iPhone list. >> >> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if >> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or >> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. >> >> Your V iPhone list moderator is Mark Taylor. Mark can be reached at: >> mk...@ucla.edu. Your list owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at >> caraqu...@caraquinn.com >> >> The archives for this list can be searched at: >> http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/ >> --- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "VIPhone" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >> To view this discussion on the web visit >> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/viphone/SJ0PR12MB56618526B06F25574FA91A6BC7CFA%40SJ0PR12MB5661.namprd12.prod.outlook.com. > > -- > Signature: > For a nation to admit it has done grievous wrongs and will strive to correct > them for the betterment of all is no vice; > For a nation to claim it has always been great, needs no improvement and to > cling to its past achievements is no virtue! > > -- > The following information is important for all members of the V iPhone list. > > If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if > you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or > moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. > > Your V iPhone list moderator is Mark Taylor. Mark can be reached at: > mk...@ucla.edu. Your list owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at > caraqu...@caraquinn.com > > The archives for this list can be searched at: > http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/ > --- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "VIPhone" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/viphone/369418db-0d43-aad0-83f2-93e4861b0fe1%40roadrunner.com.
-- The following information is important for all members of the V iPhone list. If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. Your V iPhone list moderator is Mark Taylor. Mark can be reached at: mk...@ucla.edu. Your list owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com The archives for this list can be searched at: http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/ --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "VIPhone" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/viphone/614C5FA0-5083-482D-9C5F-EFB0F6B2C95F%40charter.net.
