I'm loving the artificial intelligence breakthroughs. As for our facial expressions, look at it this way, it is mostly a sighted world and most of our light dependent friends equate smiles and attentive facial expressions in a favorable way; regardless of the culture from which we hail. Find a person you trust and get a little coaching if you aren't clear about it. I had vision until around age 19 and recall the difference in how a person came across when they didn't smile, as appropriate. Dan
-----Original Message----- From: viphone@googlegroups.com <viphone@googlegroups.com> On Behalf Of Mary Otten Sent: Monday, November 13, 2023 10:37 PM To: viphone@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: Be My AI and what it may teach us? I do not want to know what some artificial intelligence thinks somebody’s expression means. Cultural stuff hugely influences that sort of thing. And as a totally blind person from birth, I can’t tell you how many times people have asked me why are you angry? Because I’m not smiling. Apparently you’re supposed to go around smiling all the time especially if you’re a woman. So I don’t trust AI male centric and Eurocentric as it must obviously be, based on who is making these glorious language models and facial expression models etc.I don’t want it. I want human to human interaction, and never mind somebody else assuming they know what I’m thinking because of how my face looks. I sure don’t want to inflict that misunderstanding on somebody else. Sent from my iPhone > On Nov 13, 2023, at 6:49 PM, realman02 via VIPhone <viphone@googlegroups.com> > wrote: > > Good points, Kelly. The reason it bothers me is that it's not human-to-human > interaction; it's a large language model that's making those judgements. > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: viphone@googlegroups.com <viphone@googlegroups.com> On Behalf Of Kellie > Sent: Monday, November 13, 2023 9:21 PM > To: viphone@googlegroups.com > Subject: Re: Be My AI and what it may teach us? > > I think the other thing that people need to keep in mind, it’s just because > an artificial intelligence says that’s your expression doesn’t mean you have > to believe it. You can ask follow-up questions. The beauty is we have > deductive reasoning and can make that determination with further input. Also, > if you’re totally blind, every input of an expression is going to be through > hearsay whether it’s artificial intelligence or another human being. You’re > still going by their interpretation of the expression, not your own judgment. > Every single thing that is described to us is through someone else’s eyes or > interpretation of what they visually perceive it to be. That means, every > description is suspect since no two people are going to take away the same > thing. That’s why it doesn’t really bother me if the artificial intelligence > Gives an answer that isn’t maybe how I’m feeling or etc. because I can use my > reasoning to figure it out. > > Kellie and my lovable Lady J > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Nov 13, 2023, at 7:26 PM, Carolyn Arnold <2carolynarn...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> I agree with that. The Be my A I is just telling us what we'd see, if we >> could - hairy arm; stern expression. I would want it to tell me what it sees. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf >> Of Robert Doc Wright >> Sent: Monday, November 13, 2023 4:50 PM >> To: viphone@googlegroups.com >> Subject: Re: Be My AI and what it may teach us? >> >> What is wrong with the truth? >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Cristóbal Muñoz <mailto:cristobalm...@gmail.com> >> To: viphone@googlegroups.com <mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com> >> Sent: Monday, November 13, 2023 2:09 PM >> Subject: RE: Be My AI and what it may teach us? >> >> >> This topic reminds me of these two articles. >> >> Blind Olympic athletes show the universal nature of pride and shame >> <https://www.nationalgeographic.com/science/article/blind-olympic-athletes-show-the-universal-nature-of-pride-and-shame> >> >> The role of visual experience in the production of emotional facial >> expressions by blind people: >> <https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5902524/> >> >> Sometimes, BeMyEyes descriptions aren’t appreciated. The other day, I used >> it to snap a photo of a bag of green coffee beans that I wanted to roast. I >> held the bag of beans in my left hand and snapped the picture with my iPhone >> in my right hand. BeMyEyes came back with a description of the type of bean, >> region where they were grown, altitude and a whole bunch of other info I >> wouldn’t gotten if I tried using SeeingAI. Cool cool… >> >> At the end of the very detailed description, BeMyEyes also wrote that the >> bag was being held by someone with a harry arm. WTH! What’s up with the >> editorializing? >> >> >> >> Cristóbal >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: viphone@googlegroups.com <viphone@googlegroups.com> On Behalf Of >> Sieghard Weitzel >> Sent: Monday, November 13, 2023 12:31 PM >> To: viphone@googlegroups.com >> Subject: RE: Be My AI and what it may teach us? >> >> >> >> What did your friend say about your expression? I assume it described you >> as "serious" because you weren't smiling. >> >> >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> >> From: viphone@googlegroups.com <mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com> >> <viphone@googlegroups.com <mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com> > On Behalf Of >> Malcolm Parfitt >> >> Sent: Sunday, November 12, 2023 4:52 PM >> >> To: viphone@googlegroups.com <mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com> >> >> Subject: Be My AI and what it may teach us? >> >> >> >> Hello friends. >> >> >> >> I appreciate that none of you know me personally and like me have no idea >> what I look like. >> >> >> >> However, at my request a friend of mine took a picture of me recently when >> we were in what we call in the UK a pub. I was very interested in the >> results I obtained when asking Be My AI to describe the photo. It’s >> description was: >> >> >> >> The man in the picture has a fair complexion and a sturdy build. His hair >> is short and appears to be a mix of gray and black, and he has a full head >> of hair. His eyes are partially closed, and he has a somewhat stern or >> serious expression on his face. His nose is prominent and he has full lips. >> He is clean-shaven. >> >> >> >> He is wearing a dark-colored polo shirt with a collar. The shirt has a >> small embroidery on the right side of his chest that reads "Samuel Smith" in >> a cursive font with gold thread. The shirt appears to be of a comfortable >> fit. >> >> >> >> The lighting in the picture is focused on him, making him the central >> element of the image. There is no additional information provided about the >> man, such as his name or what he is doing in the pub. >> >> >> >> >> >> What interested me most is that this is the closest we can get to a >> sighted person looking in a mirror. >> >> >> >> The other thing that struck me was the description of my expression. I >> had never really thought about expressions but I suddenly thought are >> expressions learned or natural. How far do our expressions mirror those of >> sighted people. I didn’t feel serious at the time, and if Be My AI’s >> description of my expression was accurate then why would I look serious? >> >> >> >> Do our expressions really express our mood as sighted people’s do? >> >> >> >> Not really an Apple question admittedly but an interesting subject. >> >> >> >> Apologies in advance for the off-topic post but I would be most interested >> in your opinions. >> >> Malcolm Parfitt >> >> >> >> -- >> >> The following information is important for all members of the V iPhone >> list. >> >> >> >> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or >> if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners >> or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. >> >> >> >> Your V iPhone list moderator is Mark Taylor. 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