Hi Cara, I really appreciate your insight on this and you said it far better than I did.
Ultimately, with all of the controversy surrounding the App Store given developments in the EU etc., one thing that everyone usually acknowledges is that the App Store operates within certain guidelines, and those have huge benefits to both users and developers. Some are more asateric, like "please don't modify the status bar or hide system messages etc.". Some are more protective, like the one I quoted (e.g. something like "please don't take away what users previously bought and try to charge for it again"). What I'm throwing out there is that if the App Store is going to be the exclusive place where I can get apps, I'd like developers to follow the guidelines so I can get the functionality and protections the App Store is designed to offer. And I would like a mechanism to report when I believe developers aren’t following what they agreed upon. It's just baffling to me that previous purchases are being intentionally disabled and I'm a little taken aback that the arguments on either side haven't addressed this. If you know of any way to report this to Apple and get a response, I'd certainly love to hear it. I know that this app is used in many schools and universities where money is tight, and while new users have had subscriptions for a few years, it's possible that a high school or university student is still in the system with a perpetual license. What this means is that their app might be disabled around exam time in the school year, possibly without much notice. I can personally attest that the banner was not noticeable to me as a VO user and I only learned about it based on this list. I'm concerned this could impact the very demographics who are best served by this app. But more to the point, I'm questioning whether we truly are getting the protections we thought we were getting by buying from the App Store. When I switched to Apple Music I kept all the songs I'd bought outright, and even if I canceled it I would still keep those songs. This would be like having all my previous purchases taken away as of a certain date. Grant Hardy On Sun, Mar 31, 2024 at 9:06 AM Cara Quinn <modelc...@gmail.com> wrote: > Hi Richard and All, > > Let me state right out front that I am absolutely not sharing any opinions > here on this issue. I’m not really a user of the app so have no horse in > this race. :) > > Having said that though, this doesn’t really fit with what Grant is > saying. One important aspect of this app’s functionality is to allow folks > to add to their library. So in this case, yes, previously purchased > functionality is being removed. > > Also, even though the dev guidelines are guidelines, and thus not > legally-binding, I would absolutely consider contacting Apple, not to > complain, but to simply ask for clarification on this situation. > > As a developer on the App Store, myself, I can’t just do whatever I want > and still be on the store. That is what the guidelines are for. > > If I released an app, and offered a subscription along with a more > expensive lifetime purchase option, should I then be allowed to turn around > a couple of months later and tell all owners of the app that they all need > to move to the subscription? When someone makes a purchase, that can be > seen as a form of contract. This is obviously subject to specifics, of > course, and please, by all means, feel free to correct me if I’m wrong. > > I know that the Voice Dream situation has happened over a longer period > than my example above, but in my example, just say that I decided after > three months or so to begin charging everyone a subscription, regardless of > whether they had already purchased the app. Would this be appropriate? What > about if I did this after a month? What about six months? -or a year? What > time frame is appropriate? Does time frame matter? > > In any case, there is a guideline (which Grant quoted) which does seem to > address this. So I would be curious here to see what Apple has to say on > this. > > Regardless, I hope there can be a good and appropriate outcome to this > situation which honors the money that folks have spent and also allows the > Voice Dream team to continue their excellent work! > > Cheers and Happy Easter to those who celebrate! :) > > Cara > > > > > On Mar 31, 2024, at 6:26 AM, Richard Turner <richardr_tur...@comcast.net> > wrote: > > If you listen to Jonathan's podcast you will learn that after May 1st, you > will still be able to access everything in your library. Apparentbby, you > will not be able to add to the library. I think that fits your analogy with > purchasing a game. > > Richard, USA > “Grandma always told us, “Be careful when you pray for patience. God > stores it on the other side of Hell and you will have to go through Hell to > get it.” > -- Cedrick Bridgeforth > > > My web site: https://www.turner42.com/ > > > > On Mar 30, 2024, at 9:41 PM, Grant Hardy <grantha...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > Hey Richard, > > I absolutely appreciate that the economics of maintaining an app are > tricky. > > However, Apple Developer guideline 3.1.2 clearly states: > > If you are changing your existing app to a subscription-based business > model, you should not take away the primary functionality existing users > have already paid for. For example, let customers who have already > purchased a “full game unlock” continue to access the full game after you > introduce a subscription model for new customers. > > > This is why, for example, when the Weather Gods app converted to a > subscription, existing users (those who already paid for the app) kept the > functionality they previously paid for. > > In this case, it seems like all our purchases (Voice Dream Reader, any > purchased voices, Voice Dream Scanner, etc.) are simply going to be > disabled. I do have some concerns with that, because it seems like the > quoted Apple Developer review guideline states that this shouldn't occur. > > I don't have any concerns about charging a subscription for new users, or > charging existing users for updates. But I haven't ever heard of an app > that is disabling previously purchased functionality from working at all. > Regardless of the PR that this generates, I'm a little unclear how this is > in accordance with the Developer Guidelines as quoted above. > > If it is, I am curious then if it would be reasonable to expect every app > purchase we've made on iOS to be disabled then at some point. I'm not > talking about apps not being developed anymore and possibly not working > anymore given an update to iOS etc.. I am talking about code that > specifically tells the app not to recognize your previously purchased > license. > > just some food for thought. Again, I am absolutely sympathetic to the new > owners of Voice Dream Reader, but I don't think disabling previous > purchases is the appropriate solution. At the moment, I'm working on > transitioning my audio content to Downcast. Haven't decided what to do > about my text content yet. > > Thank you, > Grant Hardy > > > On Sat, Mar 30, 2024 at 6:01 PM Richard Turner < > richardr_tur...@comcast.net> wrote: > >> I took Dennis’s advice and made a donation to listen to Jonathan >> interviewing Kishin Manglani from the Applause Group. >> >> It is very much worth listening to. It is fairly long, but it is very >> clear that they care very much about their customers and are doing their >> best to provide a quality product and adding new features. >> >> >> >> The one thing I noticed if you go into the Voice Dream Reader app and >> double tap on settings, then on subscription, it brings up the post titled >> Pricing Changes for One-Time Purchasers. >> >> As you read through that, when you get to the line that says, try the 14 >> day trial or something like that, it doesn’t say it is a link or button, >> but if you double tap on that, it takes you to the app store where you can >> choose to subscribe and get 2 weeks free if you were a one-time purchaser. >> I don’t know what you get if you are a new subscriber. >> >> >> >> But signing up this way keeps it fairly simple and familiar since it is >> within the app store. >> >> The difference from subscribing through the link through a service that >> seems to be called Stripe or something; whatever Jonathan said, the >> Applause Group gets a higher cut of the payment than if you go through the >> app store. >> >> I don’t know if people realize, that whatever price you pay for an app >> through the app store, Apple gets a pretty big cut. I think 20 or 30 >> percent and the developer gets the rest. >> >> >> >> IN any case, I’ve signed up through the app store. >> >> >> >> They will be offering a monthly option in the not too distant future. >> >> >> >> HTH, >> >> >> >> Richard, USA >> >> "It's no great honor to be blind, but it's more than a nuisance and less >> than a disaster. Either you're going to fight like hell when your sight >> fails or you're going to stand on the sidelines for the rest of your life." >> -- Dr. Margaret Rockwell Phanstiehl Founder of Audio Description (1932-2009) >> >> >> >> My web site: https://www.turner42.com >> >> >> >> *From:* viphone@googlegroups.com <viphone@googlegroups.com> *On Behalf >> Of *Dennis Long >> *Sent:* Saturday, March 30, 2024 11:47 AM >> *To:* viphone@googlegroups.com >> *Subject:* RE: Please submit feedback to Apple about Voice Dream Reader >> >> >> >> You can subscribe to livingly blindfully plus for just 60 American cents >> and get access today or wait 3 days. I strongly encourage you to listen to >> it. I do think the Voicedream team does care and value our feedback. >> >> >> >> *From:* viphone@googlegroups.com <viphone@googlegroups.com> *On Behalf >> Of *Michael Irons >> *Sent:* Saturday, March 30, 2024 2:45 PM >> *To:* viphone@googlegroups.com >> *Subject:* Re: Please submit feedback to Apple about Voice Dream Reader >> >> >> >> Hello everybody I believe that we just have to except what do people with >> voice dream reader want to do. That developers are totally free to increase >> prices or make free apps, paid apps or whatever they feel they want to do >> need to do or have to do to make money. Just remember that Free doesn’t >> make any money for anybody and, he doesn’t buy anyone’s lunch. I think we’d >> all be better served if we could look for something that does the same >> things as voice dream reader and it’s either Free or at least at low cost. >> It just sounds like the people that work with voice dream reader are going >> to do whatever they’re going to do and they’re not willing to, or able to >> change their minds. Just trying to find an alternative would be a lot more >> productive for everybody than just talking about not being able to use >> voice dream reader. I’m just saying all this whatever it’s worth. For all I >> know it may not be worth anything not even a plug penny or a plug nickel. >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> >> >> On Mar 29, 2024, at 6:46 PM, Sieghard Weitzel <siegh...@live.ca> wrote: >> >> >> >> I highly doubt it violates any Apple rules, if a developer decides to >> increase the price for their app or to charge something for a previously >> free app or to switch to a subscription model then that is entirely their >> decision. >> >> >> >> *From:* viphone@googlegroups.com <viphone@googlegroups.com> *On Behalf >> Of *Grant Hardy >> *Sent:* Wednesday, March 27, 2024 10:17 PM >> *To:* viphone@googlegroups.com >> *Subject:* Please submit feedback to Apple about Voice Dream Reader >> >> >> >> Hey guys, >> >> >> >> If you search for Voice Dream Reader on the App Store, open the page for >> the app, and scroll down, there is an option to "report a problem". Please >> consider reporting what the developer is doing to Apple. I am not sure if >> it violates any developer guidelines, but it sure seems like it would: >> selling lifetime licenses with agreed upon terms and then disabling them. >> The nature of how the update was released also didn't give users any >> warning or opt-out, as the new deadline wasn't mentioned in the release >> notes. I think Apple uses these for internal purposes, and if enough people >> file reports then they may act upon it. >> >> >> >> I would also recommend leaving a review of the app and mentioning the >> upcoming disabling of previously purchased licenses, and how the update was >> handled. >> >> >> >> I absolutely do not have a problem with developers going the subscription >> route, charging for new features and updates, or raising prices. It's a >> tough world out there. But I do have serious concerns about pushing out an >> update that disables previously purchased licenses from continuing to work >> at all and not mentioning that this would happen in the release notes. I >> would imagine this will impact many schools and other educational >> institutions as well who will rely on having access to this app at least >> for the remainder of the school year. >> >> Let's hope we can share with the developer and Apple some constructive >> feedback. >> >> >> >> Grant Hardy >> >> -- >> The following information is important for all members of the V iPhone >> list. >> >> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or >> if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the >> owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. >> >> Your V iPhone list moderator is Mark Taylor. Mark can be reached at: >> mk...@ucla.edu. 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Mark can be reached at: >> mk...@ucla.edu. Your list owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at >> caraqu...@caraquinn.com >> >> The archives for this list can be searched at: >> http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/ >> --- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "VIPhone" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >> To view this discussion on the web visit >> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/viphone/DC839E34-2F6D-4D08-8874-866E153B9395%40gmail.com >> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/viphone/DC839E34-2F6D-4D08-8874-866E153B9395%40gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >> . >> >> -- >> The following information is important for all members of the V iPhone >> list. >> >> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or >> if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the >> owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. >> >> Your V iPhone list moderator is Mark Taylor. Mark can be reached at: >> mk...@ucla.edu. Your list owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at >> caraqu...@caraquinn.com >> >> The archives for this list can be searched at: >> http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/ >> --- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "VIPhone" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >> To view this discussion on the web visit >> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/viphone/02ea01da82d2%24ae6d6980%240b483c80%24%40gmail.com >> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/viphone/02ea01da82d2%24ae6d6980%240b483c80%24%40gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >> . >> >> -- >> The following information is important for all members of the V iPhone >> list. >> >> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or >> if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the >> owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. >> >> Your V iPhone list moderator is Mark Taylor. Mark can be reached at: >> mk...@ucla.edu. Your list owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at >> caraqu...@caraquinn.com >> >> The archives for this list can be searched at: >> http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/ >> --- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "VIPhone" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >> To view this discussion on the web visit >> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/viphone/00de01da8306%24f1d91870%24d58b4950%24%40comcast.net >> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/viphone/00de01da8306%24f1d91870%24d58b4950%24%40comcast.net?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >> . >> > > -- > The following information is important for all members of the V iPhone > list. > > If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or > if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the > owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. > > Your V iPhone list moderator is Mark Taylor. Mark can be reached at: > mk...@ucla.edu. Your list owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at > caraqu...@caraquinn.com > > The archives for this list can be searched at: > http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/ > --- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "VIPhone" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/viphone/CAAhK5Q96NAJz3K%2BR4djz9M%3DCwrjvbfdciWRi1pyL1e2E-9tYHA%40mail.gmail.com > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/viphone/CAAhK5Q96NAJz3K%2BR4djz9M%3DCwrjvbfdciWRi1pyL1e2E-9tYHA%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> > . > > > -- > The following information is important for all members of the V iPhone > list. > > If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or > if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the > owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. > > Your V iPhone list moderator is Mark Taylor. 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Your list owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at > caraqu...@caraquinn.com > > The archives for this list can be searched at: > http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/ > --- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "VIPhone" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/viphone/333169E2-EB59-4DBF-BE50-16B61CCB1CDC%40comcast.net > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/viphone/333169E2-EB59-4DBF-BE50-16B61CCB1CDC%40comcast.net?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> > . > > > -- > The following information is important for all members of the V iPhone > list. > > If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or > if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the > owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. > > Your V iPhone list moderator is Mark Taylor. Mark can be reached at: > mk...@ucla.edu. Your list owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at > caraqu...@caraquinn.com > > The archives for this list can be searched at: > http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/ > --- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "VIPhone" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/viphone/8F97A1BD-5240-4B59-AE8B-3A1B10CC2F6B%40gmail.com > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/viphone/8F97A1BD-5240-4B59-AE8B-3A1B10CC2F6B%40gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> > . > -- The following information is important for all members of the V iPhone list. 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