I am very surprised that this thread is still continued to be on. Very funny. I am just going to say that everyone is different and the purpose of this list is to help, not to put anyone down by saying that you asked a stupid question, or go and find yourself or go to applevis or read the descriptions!!!!!! I mean, I do agree that trying to find stuff yourself is beneficial, but when you just can't get it, doesn't mean you're lazy. You should know what lazy is, first of all, lazy is when someone doesn't want to do something purposely. OK? So, if a person has multiple disability and they can't be able to accomplish some taskss, there,ore, they need help, that doesn't say they are lzzy!!! I am not going to say anymore on this except that you should treat other people how you would like to be treated in the same situation. As I said, I am very surprised that this is allowed to go on. Thank you.
On 4/12/13, Kellie and my lab pack <pebbles...@gmail.com> wrote: > I have been debating whether I want to jump in this topic. Personally, I > feel that this is off topic but since the mods have Ok’d it I guess I can > give an opinion. > > Having taught technology to people who are blind or visually impaired in the > > past, I know that you cannot assume that everyone has the same capabilities > > and skills as you. I have taught things to individuals, have them come in > the next day and we were right back where we started. It is at that point > that you have to step back and think outside the box and change the > approach. Does it mean that the individual I was working with was lazy? I > don't think so. They were trying their hardest to understand. > > I think it is presumptuous to deem a person lazy because they ask a question > > that you feel is stupid or can be obtained on their own. Who determines what > > information can be researched on their own verses what should be asked on a > > list. On a technicality, probably every single question that is asked here > can be found on a web site somewhere and if that’s the case why does this > list exist at all? > > I have done my share of research, and yet I still will ask questions on a > list. For instance, I am in the market for a new laptop and considering a > Mac. I have read articles, looked on both applevis and maccessibility and > yet I still joined the list to ask questions. Because sometimes it is nice > to have an actual human respond. > > Another thing to consider is that you don't know the person or where they > are coming from. We all have areas where we excel and areas where we are > weak. Additionally, you have no idea if there are any cognitive challenges > that an individual has which makes processing certain tasks very difficult. > > I have a friend who uses the computer and has even taken classes; however, > he is really incapable doing much beyond email. The internet is beyond him. > > It isn't for lack of trying though. He just doesn't get it. The fact that he > > can email was an accomplishment. He is not a stupid man either. It is just > that technology is not his strength. > > My father used a computer but really didn't know what he was doing. He was > forever calling me for help. I would explain how he could do it but the next > > time it happened I would get a call again. He just couldn't retain the > information. > > I am not saying that you can't assist and offer guidance as well as explain > > how a person can do things for themselves or research. Helping a person be > self sufficient is great. However, I believe that this can be and should be > > done respectfully without being condescending and without sarcasm. > > I have written an iPhone basics tutorial that I have shared with friends to > > help them when they first get an iPhone. I have been told that it has been > very beneficial and allowing them to be successful at using their iPhones > and cut down on frustration. I am glad that I could assist them in that > way. > > There are many things discussed on list which I find very easy to do but > that doesn't mean because I find it simple that everyone else should as > well. If I don't like a message I delete it and the thread and move on. > > As for those questions generating needless traffic on list. I must say that > > this thread has garnered its share. It is the reason why I hesitated to post > > on this at all. > > In short treat others how you would like to be treated if you asked a > question. Everyone should feel that this is a comfortable place that they > can come to when they are having a problem. They should not worry that they > > are going to get told that their question is stupid and that they shouldn't > > ask it. > > I hope that I did not offend anyone in my post. If I did that was not my > intent. > > Respectfully, > Kellie, Loki and retired July > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Ron Pelletier > Sent: Friday, April 12, 2013 2:30 PM > To: viphone@googlegroups.com > Subject: RE: What do they do??? > > Hi Ricardo, > > You fail to realize that not everyone is able to function at your level. > If > someone has recently been equipped with a device and wants to know the > price > of another device that could be better for them or to figure if they can > afford both and don't know yet how to get that information, that's a > legitimate question. If someone is not comfortable activating a button > without knowing what will happen, that's a legitimate question also. If > someone even needs someone else to install apps for them to use because > they > can't do it themselves and they want to know how much it costs, that's > legitimate also > > So, you see, every question is a legitimate question if you don't know the > answer or can't find the answer on your own. I never saw this list as a > place where we only should work with people who have a certain level of > abilities. I am just having a lot of trouble getting some people to > understand that there is no such thing as a common denominator in people's > ability to function. > > I am not ignoring the validity of the original post, I am just saying as > part of my opinion that the original post had no validity to it at all. > > Respectfully > > Ron & Danvers > > -----Original Message----- > From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf > Of Ricardo Walker > Sent: Friday, April 12, 2013 1:54 PM > To: viphone@googlegroups.com > Subject: Re: What do they do??? > > Hello, > > I agree with everything you said but, I think you are ignoring the validity > of the original posters statement. For example. I've seen people ask the > "how much is an iPhone, iPad, iPod touch, etc, dozens of times on this list > in the last 3 years. Now, to me, I think this is a silly question to ask > on > a list as big as this. By the time you get a reply, and find the reply to > that question, the person could have gone to the Apple site and just looked > for themselves. Or, when a person talks about a new app they have come > across, and people ask, "how much is it? I'm like, well, why not check for > your self? I mean, if your going to buy it, you would actually need to > click on the button that displays the price, no? I've even seen people > post > something like, "Hi list, I've downloaded this app, and there are 2 > unlabeled buttons. What do they do? Now, I'm far from the most > adventuress > person in the world but, wouldn't it be much easier to double tap on the > buttons yourself? Lets think about it. Some people would wait hours, if > not days, for someone to report back on what those 2 buttons do before > venturing to press them. I could totally understand why a person might be > annoyed by such a post. I tend to just delete these myself. I have a > feeling Fred might have been talking about questions more like this than, > questions that deal with the general operation of an IOS device or, the use > of an application. > > Ricardo Walker > rica...@appletothecore.info > Twitter:@apple2thecore > www.appletothecore.info > > On Apr 12, 2013, at 10:06 AM, Ron Pelletier <ron.pellet...@sympatico.ca> > wrote: > >> Hi Eddie, >> >> Having taught accessible technology for 21 years to people of all >> degrees of vision and many combinations of disabilities, I totally >> agree with your technique. When a client doesn't understand the first >> or second time, there is no point repeating the same thing over and >> over. Its up to us to change our approach to the problem. It is up >> to us to find a different way of working with each individual person >> and each individual problem. So, thinking in any way that asking >> questions is, laziness or lack of interest is totally wrong. >> >> As for the person who originated this topic claiming that asking >> questions creates too much traffic, well, I wish I had counted how >> much traffic this topic created on the list. >> >> So, let's deal with the questions which are the purpose of this list >> and get on with it. >> >> Ron & Danvers >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On >> Behalf Of Eddie Salcido >> Sent: Friday, April 12, 2013 8:11 AM >> To: viphone@googlegroups.com >> Subject: RE: What do they do??? >> >> Hi Carrie and list. >> My girlfriend is someone who definitely doesn't feel confident with I >> things and would be asking what to do on a consistent basis, so here's my > thought. >> In a real life teaching situation, I would explain a procedure once or >> twice, then if asked a third time, I would make the person critically >> think by asking a question of my own such as, "What do you think the >> next step might be?" I do this type of question teaching regularly >> with blind kids who I teach music to. >> Eddie >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On >> Behalf Of Carrie Snodgrass >> Sent: Thursday, April 11, 2013 7:53 AM >> To: viphone@googlegroups.com >> Subject: RE: What do they do??? >> >> Patti, you're a kind soul. I feel like I have some of that patience >> with others, but not to the extent that you do. I'm all for helping >> others, as long as they try to learn as we go. However, there is a >> point when one has to do for themselves. I live a very full life, >> surrounded by sighted people, and there's been more than one occasion >> in which I'm complaining about all the "blind bums," and my friends >> and family have had to gently explained to me that just because I have >> a lot of self-confidence doesn't mean that everyone else does and just >> because blind people don't/can't always learn/do for themselves >> doesn't make them lazy. So, long story short, I respect Patti's view, >> but > probably feel more as Fred does. >> Having said that though, there will be A LOT less traffic and >> confusion if everyone would just get along. Everyone's free to ask >> questions, just as everyone is free to answer them or not. We're all >> on this list to gain support and knowledge from other IOS users. If a >> particular topic doesn't interest you, DELETE is the "key." It takes >> way less time to hit Delete a few times than to draft a complaint >> about a topic for which you have no concern in the first place. >> Carrie >> -----Original Message----- >> From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On >> Behalf Of Patti Johnson >> Sent: Thursday, April 11, 2013 10:05 AM >> To: viphone@googlegroups.com >> Subject: RE: What do they do??? >> >> I do have friends who hardly will ever try to figure things out on >> their own because they don't have the confidence in themselves, they >> are afraid of doing something wrong. >> I am not saying there is right or wrong in any of this; I just think >> those that ask should be respected and answered even if we ourselves >> wish they would do their own work. >> I have done a lot of stuff for people that I think they should be able >> to do for themselves, yet over and over again when they need help they >> come to me for it and I think to myself, they need to learn this on >> their own but if they won't because they are fearful of making a >> mistake, then I have to help them. >> Patti >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On >> Behalf Of Fred Olver >> Sent: Thursday, April 11, 2013 9:58 AM >> To: viphone@googlegroups.com >> Subject: Re: What do they do??? >> >> Patty, if the information is readily available, why ask the list? >> Aren't we supposed to be able to do some things on our own or have we >> all become so lazy that rather than find out ourselves that we must >> bring it to the list because we can't take the time to find out for > ourselves? >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Patti Johnson" <pat1...@insightbb.com> >> To: <viphone@googlegroups.com> >> Sent: Thursday, April 11, 2013 8:53 AM >> Subject: RE: What do they do??? >> >> >>> I was telling a friend about this who was thinking of subscribing to >>> this list; and she said if you're told to do your research all the >>> time then what's the point of the list? >>> I personally don't mind answering questions, no matter how many times >>> the question is asked. >>> Some people are new to this thing, and we don't know who is or isn't. >>> Or their level of experience. Patience needs to be exercised on any >>> email list, because we don't know where the person writing in is >>> coming from. Just my humble opinion. And actually if you don't want >>> to answer that person on list write to them privately, which would >>> take away from the high traffic. >>> Patti >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On >>> Behalf Of Fred Olver >>> Sent: Thursday, April 11, 2013 9:44 AM >>> To: viphone@googlegroups.com >>> Subject: Re: What do they do??? >>> >>> Thanks for your comments, I just happen to find it very irritating >>> that somewhat intelligent people choose not, even when they have the >>> information at their fingertips to find the information themselves >>> rather than ask on such a high-traffic list. This was as a result of >>> two messages in a row which asked the question of two different >>> app's, what does it do. >>> >>> Fred >>> ----- Original Message. In this case, there were two messages in a >>> row that asked the same question, "What does it do ----- >>> From: "Christopher Chaltain" <chalt...@gmail.com> >>> To: <viphone@googlegroups.com> >>> Sent: Thursday, April 11, 2013 8:23 AM >>> Subject: Re: What do they do??? >>> >>> >>>> Well, I thought the whole thread was kind of annoying and >>>> condescending myself, and I didn't have the patience to read it. I >>>> doubt many of the targeted audience is going to have the patience to >>>> read such an email let alone follow the tips tucked in it. I also >>>> wonder how much time was spent writing and reading such a message as >>>> opposed to just hitting the delete key when someone asks a question >>>> you can't or don't want to answer. I find the one liners like "What >>>> does >>> this app do?" or "How much does it cost?" >>>> to be just as annoying as the next guy, but given that Raul, as the >>>> moderator, has already done a good job trying to curb such behavior, >>>> I don't think it's going to change human behavior much, and I think >>>> it's best left to Raul and the moderators. >>>> >>>> On 04/11/2013 06:40 AM, Fred Olver wrote: >>>>> Thanks, Will for bringing me a chuckle this morning. I get so tired >>>>> of folks asking what does it do when they could so easily find out >>>>> the information for themselves. >>>>> Maybe my little piece will cause them to think before posting to >>>>> the list. >>>>> Fred >>>>> >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> *From:* Wil James <mailto:w...@wilanddenise.com> >>>>> *To:* viphone@googlegroups.com <mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com> >>>>> *Sent:* Thursday, April 11, 2013 12:07 AM >>>>> *Subject:* Re: What do they do??? >>>>> >>>>> You forgot the other burning question. How much does it cost? >>>>> >>>>> Sent from Wil's iPhone 4S >>>>> ---------- >>>>> E-mail or iMessage: w...@wilanddenise.com >>>>> <mailto:w...@wilanddenise.com> >>>>> Twitter: wiljames >>>>> zellow: wilcjames >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Apr 10, 2013, at 11:47 PM, "Fred Olver" <goodfo...@charter.net >>>>> <mailto:goodfo...@charter.net>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Inquiring minds want to know, what does it do? What does it do???? >>>>>> What does it do??? The answer is simple, in fact it is so simple >>>>>> it's a wonder you didn't think of it yourself??? Unlike the >>>>>> I-devices, there is a simple yet often-overlooked task which will >>>>>> easily bring you the information you crave. >>>>>> What is it you say, I can't wait, please, please, tell me. >>>>>> Why it's as simple as typing the name of the app in to the space >>>>>> marked, very clearly "SEARCH" I repeat "SEARCH", easily found >>>>>> Where??? Ah, yet another question and yet one which answer is not >>>>>> the commonly used phrase, "Over there", why it is, are you ready >>>>>> for this, are you sure you are ready? It is after all your waiting >>>>>> to find an answer which has iluded mankind for hmmm maybe 20 >>>>>> seconds or so, of course, in the app store. See that wasn't so >>>>>> difficult, now, here are the directions. Merely double-tap on the >>>>>> "app store" Icon on your i-Device, wait for it to open and then, >>>>>> then, look down at the bottom of the page which you will come to. >>>>>> There are five buttons labeled from left to right: "Featured", >>>>>> "top Charts" "genius" "search" and last but not least "updates". >>>>>> Now, all you have to do after tapping the "search" item, a new >>>>>> screen will appear in which you will be presented with an >>>>>> on-screen keyboard, or, you can use an external keyboard, either >>>>>> Braille or standard to gain the information you so badly crave. >>>>>> Then all you need do is enter the necessary information field >>>>>> using voice, keyboard bluetooth or keyboard on the phone and tap >>>>>> "search" and voila, the information appears. This feature can be >>>>>> used to find hidden apps like tap tap see, four square, or >>>>>> perhapse you want to look up 4square. Words like radio or music >>>>>> can present you with literally hundreds of functional >>>>>> applications. Perhapse you long for apps which might be of use to >>>>>> you tomorrow, Saturday, or maybe even next week. >>>>>> Be sure to keep this document in case you forget what to do, lets >>>>>> again, refresh, >>>>>> 1. Find app store on your i-device >>>>>> 2. Double tap to open this item. >>>>>> 3. find the WORD "SEARCH" near the bottom of the screen, >>>>>> double-tap on it at which point you will be presented with an >>>>>> on-screen keyboard or you can use an external one if you wish, >>>>>> 4. Type the name of what you are looking for or something like >>>>>> rpg's or text adventures or cooking or games >>>>>> 5. Again, double-tap the "search" button by using a keyboard to >>>>>> input your information your choice and off you go. >>>>>> I hope this has been helpful, compared to making use of some of >>>>>> the apps available for the iPhone this is truly a very easy task >>>>>> to accomplish. >>>>>> If you still do not feel you understand this task, let me know and >>>>>> I will indeed be glad to put together a podcast and if enough of >>>>>> you ask me too, I'll see about putting it up on "applevis", what >>>>>> is that, you ask, well, that's for another night. but that's >>>>>> another message. >>>>>> Later folks. >>>>>> Happy searching. >>>>>> Fred Olver >>>>>> Thanks to Ester and Jonathon for all of your previous posts >>>>>> teaching all of us what we need to know, I only hope I have come >>>>>> close in presenting the necessary information for those who are >>>>>> having difficulty accomplishing this task. >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the 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Version: 2013.0.2904 / Virus Database: 2641/6232 - Release Date: >>>>> 04/08/13 >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the >>>>> "VIPhone" Google Group. >>>>> To search the VIPhone public archive, visit >>>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. >>>>> To post to this group, send email to viphone@googlegroups.com. >>>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>>> viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>>>> For more options, visit this group at >>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/viphone?hl=en. >>>>> --- >>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>> Groups "VIPhone" group. >>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>> send an email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the "VIPhone" >>>>> Google Group. >>>>> To search the VIPhone public archive, visit >>>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. >>>>> To post to this group, send email to viphone@googlegroups.com. >>>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>>> viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>>>> For more options, visit this group at >>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/viphone?hl=en. >>>>> --- >>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>> Groups "VIPhone" group. >>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>> send an email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Christopher (CJ) >>>> chaltain at Gmail >>>> >>>> -- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the "VIPhone" >>>> Google Group. >>>> To search the VIPhone public archive, visit >>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. >>>> To post to this 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To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/viphone?hl=en. >> --- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >> Groups "VIPhone" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >> an email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. >> >> >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the "VIPhone" > Google Group. >> To search the VIPhone public archive, visit > http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. >> To post to this group, send email to viphone@googlegroups.com. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >> For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/viphone?hl=en. >> --- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "VIPhone" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. >> >> > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the "VIPhone" > Google > Group. > To search the VIPhone public archive, visit > http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. > To post to this group, send email to viphone@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/viphone?hl=en. > --- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "VIPhone" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. > > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the "VIPhone" Google > > Group. > To search the VIPhone public archive, visit > http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. > To post to this group, send email to viphone@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/viphone?hl=en. > --- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "VIPhone" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the "VIPhone" Google > Group. > To search the VIPhone public archive, visit > http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. > To post to this group, send email to viphone@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/viphone?hl=en. > --- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "VIPhone" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. > > > -- Important quotes that people need to read and understand: “JUST BECAUSE A MAN LACKS THE USE OF HIS EYES DOESN’T MEAN HE LACKS VISION!!" By STEVIE WONDER "Just BECAUSE YOU CAN'T SEE DOESN't MEAN YOU CAN'T HEAR AND THINK!!" By STEVIE WONDER Nimit More ways to contact me: kaur.ni...@gmail.com kaur.ni...@hotmail.com Have a nice day, night, evening depending on where you are in the world! Thank you for reading my email. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the "VIPhone" Google Group. To search the VIPhone public archive, visit http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. To post to this group, send email to viphone@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/viphone?hl=en. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "VIPhone" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
