For some simple examples of man on the street units, take a loog at the following.
http://tristate.apogee.net/et/evthcop.asp http://www.heatpumpcentre.org/About_heat_pumps/HP_performance.asp http://tva.apogee.net/res/rehcop.asp -----Original Message----- From: Michel Jullian [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, March 04, 2007 4:48 PM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]: Re: Loop closed? (was Re: High efficiency electrolysis) When you begin to use the heat from the hot reservoir (launch the Sterling) it would tend to cool down from the thermal watts you draw from it, but since simultaneously you pour more thermal watts into it than you draw from it it heats up instead, with the extra heat coming from ambient air. Jones may be right 40% may be overestimated for the Sterling's efficiency, let's use his figure 15% instead, but Ron may also be right that I grossly underestimated the heat pump COP. If indeed heat pumps can easily run at COP=9, the overall COP would be: 0.15*9=1.35 which would be even more overunity. Sterling draws 1000W heat from hot reservoir (not necessarily water BTW) and outputs 150W mechanical. Heat pump draws 150W*9=1350W from ambient air and outputs them to the hot tank. Net power into the hot tank: 350W Anything wrong with this Jones? ;-) (someone "read" by Jones please answer this post so he gets it, thanks) Michel ----- Original Message ----- From: "Harry Veeder" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <vortex-l@eskimo.com> Sent: Sunday, March 04, 2007 5:36 PM Subject: Re: [Vo]: Re: Loop closed? (was Re: High efficiency electrolysis) > What happens when you begin to use the hot water? > > Harry > > Stiffler Scientific wrote: ... >> Enough of that, I hope some one will comment on your idea as I have seen >> Heat Pumps easily fun at COP=9 and if I remember my reading can go to COP=12 >> (theory). If that is the case then maybe you have just not accounted for all >> of the loss that will take place. Indeed for Texas (most of it) a m2 of >> blackened copper collector can get you some real hot water. >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Michel Jullian [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] >> Sent: Saturday, March 03, 2007 8:15 PM >> To: vortex-l@eskimo.com >> Subject: [Vo]: Re: Loop closed? (was Re: High efficiency electrolysis) >> >> >> OK, if the MIBs didn't intercept my posts which they probably didn't (no one >> has knocked at my door yet), it must be that my scheme was simply not clear >> enough to provoke feedback. I'll try and make it clearer through a practical >> embodiment: >> >> Say we have an insulated hot water reservoir, pre-heated by a joule heater >> (used only to start the process), as the hot source, and ambient air as the >> cold source. An average efficiency Sterling engine (efficiency=40% >> conservatively, say 1000W heat in, 400W mechanical out) runs on those hot >> and cold sources (2LoT not broken), and through an appropriate >> quasi-lossless gearbox replaces the electric motor powering the compressor >> of an average performance house heating type heat pump (COP=3 >> conservatively), which therefore pumps 400W*3=1200W of heat from the ambient >> air to the hot water reservoir. >> >> 1000W out, 1200W in, surely there can be no doubt that after the initial >> joule heater kick this apparatus will run standalone, drawing its energy >> from the ambient air (cooling it so ventilation will be needed, by say a 10W >> fan), and providing nearly 200W continuous excess heat to the hot water >> reservoir? >> >> Does it make more sense now? ;-) >> -- >> Michel >
