Electrolysis by AC through insulators when no separation of the products is required, a very ingenious and elegant idea Horace, if it's not been done before it's definitely worth investigating IMHO. With this idea you could electrolyze water through a test tube!
Not sure about high frequency though, maybe some delay should be implemented between positive and negative pulses to give the products a chance to diffuse/evolve so they don't get mostly undone/recombined immediately? Otherwise I don't see why it wouldn't work on the principle, imagine you send one pulse of one polarity and then another of the opposite polarity several seconds later when everything has settled, it will be strictly as if you had sent two pulses of the same polarity won't it? Michel ----- Original Message ----- From: "Horace Heffner" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <vortex-l@eskimo.com> Sent: Sunday, June 10, 2007 7:07 PM Subject: Re: [Vo]:Britannica "electrolysis" concise article corrected > > On Jun 10, 2007, at 5:35 AM, Michel Jullian wrote: > > >> >> The question is, won't it also produce nasty stuff considering the >> carbon isn't as inert as platinum? > > > It may be the commercial problem is more along the lines of needing a > catalyst to produce the powerful MIOX combination. I don't think they > had to prove the device safe, merely effective. However, any > dissolved nitrogen or nitrates, present almost everywhere, could > indeed cause the formation of the toxic cyanide ion CN- if carbon > electrodes are used. > > I've often thought an electrode free device might work even better > than the Pt ones. The idea is to capacitively couple to the > electrolyte. Switching polarity fast enough can avoid, momentarily, > the need to overcome the potential drop due to the 2 molecule thick > interface at the anode and cathode. The water plus dielectric covered > plates would provide (be) the capacitance in a resonant LC circuit. > > Consider the vendor supplied reactions. Anode reactions: > 2 Cl- = Cl2 + 2e- > 2 H2O = O2 + 4H+ + 4e- > HOCl + H2O = ClO2 + 3H+ + 3e- > O2 + H2O = O3 + 2H+ + 2e- > > The major reaction at the cathode is electrolysis of water: > > 2 H2O + 2e- = H2 (gas) + 2OH- > > The electrolyte can undergo hydrolysis with no net charge transfer: > > Cl2 + H2O = HOCl + Cl- + H+ > HOCl = OCl- + H+ > > It is also notable that any chain of reactions that accomplish: > > 2 H2O + O2 = 2 H2O2 > > or: > > 2 H2O = 2 H2 + O2 > > need not involve a net electrolysis current, so these reactions > should be pushed. The major products should be HOCL and H2O2. > > The anode and cathode reactions would still happen, but the electrons > would merely be transferred back and forth to the ceramic surface, > and thus the surface reactions would tend to reverse. > > An AC cell might be driven at less potential and still achieve the > desired reactions if the frequency is high enough or at least the > potential reversal fast enough. The key to success may be finding a > ceramic with desirable catalytic effects, or at least which would not > be eaten up in the process. I expect cavitation might be a problem. > > This is all pretty much a fantasy with regard to the pen. However, > for bulk sterilization in well houses, it seems to me the ability to > efficiently push enormous currents through the water, using > resonance, might make for effective sterilization. The biological > contaminates would even absorb power, and provide surfaces for > formation of the decontaminates. The low operating voltage would be > very safe, but it might be necessary to provide good electronic > filters on the mains to avoid sending electronic noise into > residences. It might even work efficiently for producing MIOX in a > brine cell. I don't know. Maybe this is all just idle dreaming. > > Regards, > > Horace Heffner >
